Range Protocol - damaged live rounds?

Coach1 · Post by **Coach1** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:55 am

Hello everyone. I was away from the furum for most of last year due to work and family distractions. Over the last 2 months, I have caught up on the postings and enjoy being back in your good company.

At the risk of this being a really dull question...
I shoot at a local outdoor range - pistol pits and a 200 yard rifle range. On occasion - usually with my .22lr bulk ammo - something goes wrong and a live round does not go Bang!... usually exhibits some type of damage that caused or resulting from cycling miscues. The range provides us a bucket for spent casings (requested shooter housekeeping) and a trash container for shredded targets, ammo cartons, etc.

So, my question is:
Is there a general protocol for disposing of damaged and / or suspect live rounds? What do you do?

ruger22 · Post by **ruger22** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:00 pm

I've never had one with more than a minor gouge, or that wouldn't chamber in a revolver, so that's what I normally do. Second hit usually fires a FTF .22 round.

Hit once, won't chamber, I'm not sure. Pitch it in a tall stand of weeds, or deep bucket of water? A live round going off in the open, not confined in a chamber, wouldn't be too serious, if several yards from people.

Really good question, I'll check back on this one.

charlesb · Post by **charlesb** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:07 pm

At the range that I go to, folks apparently just toss FTF .22's down amongst the empties on the ground.

Last week, my son and I were breaking in his Ruger American, and he started looking around while I tinkered with the scope and found half a dozen unfired or FTF .22lr's all within ten minutes or so, along with an unfired .40 S&W round. No two of the 22's were alike.

He asked if they would be good to shoot and I said no, suggesting that he drop them into the 55 gallon drum that we put our perforated targets and soda cans into.

I told him that the .40 caliber round was particularly dangerous because it was probably a reload from an unknown source... It could be double-charged, for all we know.

There are no convenient bodies of water here in the high desert, so I figured that the trash can would be good enough. Sooner or later, they'd end up buried at the local landfill.

Strictly speaking, burial is not all that bad an option, about as good as tossing them into a pond, etc..

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:45 pm

the problem with tossing the duds or damaged rounds into the trash barell is that some time they take all the old targets/backers and will burn them resulting in those rounds cooking off. my range had issues with that and instead put a coffe can out at each range for "bad ammo" to keep it separate from the trash....

charlesb · Post by **charlesb** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:14 pm

bgreenea3 wrote:the problem with tossing the duds or damaged rounds into the trash barell is that some time they take all the old targets/backers and will burn them resulting in those rounds cooking off. my range had issues with that and instead put a coffe can out at each range for "bad ammo" to keep it separate from the trash....

We have a burn-ban going here, due to an ongoing drouth. It all goes to the land-fill.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:45 pm

charlesb wrote:
bgreenea3 wrote:the problem with tossing the duds or damaged rounds into the trash barell is that some time they take all the old targets/backers and will burn them resulting in those rounds cooking off. my range had issues with that and instead put a coffe can out at each range for "bad ammo" to keep it separate from the trash....
We have a burn-ban going here, due to an ongoing drouth. It all goes to the land-fill.

Still live or did rounds shouldn't be in the general trash.... Even leaving them on the ground would be better I would think.

greener · Post by **greener** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:50 pm

Centerfires I'reloaded, go into the brass bag and I take them home and separate the bullet and case for reloading.. My range has just startes picking up nonfires, but has no policy or containers for thm. A lot of .22lr ftf's will fire when hit by a firing pin with a stonger spring. I had 10 ftf's Monday. We fired one of them with a rifle that made a heck of a dent in the rim. Ilike the dud pail to keep them separated.

charlesb · Post by **charlesb** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:54 pm

Still live or did rounds shouldn't be in the general trash.... Even leaving them on the ground would be better I would think.

Naw... Somebody might pick them up and decide to shoot them.

My son was wondering about shooting that 40 cal round. - Somebody else might just do it.

That's just me though... The important thing is to do what you think is best.

I've noticed that general practices tend to vary depending upon where you are.

At the Port Mansfield TX gun range, I was advised to carry a weapon with me to the target butts, as there was some concern that somebody would pop out of the bushes while I was putting up a target, shoot me with my own gun, and sell my stuff for dope or rent money.

There's not much danger of that happening at the range that I use now, so I don't bother with carrying a gun with me to the target butts, even if I have the place to myself.

greener · Post by **greener** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:05 pm

charlesb wrote:
Still live or did rounds shouldn't be in the general trash.... Even leaving them on the ground would be better I would think.
Naw... Somebody might pick them up and decide to shoot them.

My son was wondering about shooting that 40 cal round. - Somebody else might just do it.

That's just me though... The important thing is to do what you think is best.

I've noticed that general practices tend to vary depending upon where you are.

Agree. I'll try to refire ones I've fired. Any others would get no more than separation by inertial hammer.

Post by **Bullseye** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:28 pm

Most of the ranges have what we used to call in the military "Amnesty" cans. These are specifically designed containers for duds or damaged "unfired" rounds. Typically it is a locked green GI ammo can with a hole drilled in the top, just large enough to drop the dud through the hole for safe keeping. It is not wise to dispense with live unfired rounds in the spent shell containers or into the trash cans. Many of the range recovered spent cases are sold for bulk scrap and melted down into ingots. A live round here could cause some serious damage. The same can be said for regular trash, some places send trash to incinerators where the heat energy is converted to electricity - not a good place for live ammunition. Sometimes it is best to ask the range monitoring personnel what is to be done with dud unfired rounds, often they can point you toward the dud can where it may otherwise go unnoticed.

R,
Bullseye

Coach1 · Post by **Coach1** » Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:18 pm

Thanks all.
I had the same reservations as Bullseye and others about using the spent rounds (cases) bucket or trash can. I will ask at the range this weekend about a "duds" can / procedure. I have never seen one on any of the ranges but that seems like a good method. On one hand, it provides shooters a secured way to disposition questionable live rounds, one the other hand it presents the range owner with another hazardous disposal stream to deal with.. and on the third hand, it may have a beneficial affect for his insurance coverage.

If or until we get a positive method, I like the default suggestion to just throw 'em down range and let mother nature deal with them. Rain, dirt and mud will generally make a cartridge useless in short order. ( ... only an idiot would think to pick one up and try to shoot it).
Thanks again, guys, for your comments and observations.

blue68f100 · Post by **blue68f100** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:09 am

Since I reload, I normally take them take them apart so I can reuse the bullet and/or primer. The powder makes great fertilizer high in nitrogen. With 22 ammo I just pull the bullet and dump the powder but this is after a second attempt to fire. My indoor range at one time had a dud can but I have not seen it the last few times. Most of the time the shooters just sweep them under the benches where the brass goes. I'm pretty sure when they sweep up the brass to put in the recycle cans they pull the duds. Since it's a indoor range they also recycle the lead and copper they recover from there traps.

Hardball · Post by **Hardball** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:17 pm

Take apart the rimfire duds using a fired 223 case over the lead and bend the bullet out. Toss the lead in recycle and dump the powder on the lawn. The primed case should lose the prime compound with a soak.