Interesting feed issue

[Yleefox]

While at the range today, I had a failure to feed issue with my Ruger MK II Target model. It was a used gun when I bought it a number of years ago, so I don't know the exact round count, but I am sure that I've put at the very least in excess of 15,000 rounds through the firearm. This is the first time I've had a feed issue of this kind. This is one of five mags I have for this gun only. Comments?

[Bullseye]

That's a new one on me.

R,
Bullseye

[Yleefox]

Bullseye,

I just removed these two rounds from the magazine, the lower one would not easily come out because it was caught below the forward feed lips and I decided to disassemble the magazine and remove it from the bottom. I can see absolutely no reason for this to have occurred. The mag looks normal and from what I can see without disassembling the gun, there is nothing abnormal there either.

I marked this magazine with a Sharpie pen, just in case it or some other bazarre issue happens again.

I'm throughly puzzled.

Yleefox

[blue68f100]

Could be a weak mag spring, and not push the bullet out as it went forward (driven by the bolt).

[Yleefox]

I don't know Blue, I've compared the pressure by thumb, of that mag with others that I have and it feels pretty stiff. I know, I know, not too scientific..lol.

I have now disassemble the pistol and frankly, I can not see anything that looks out of place, or excessively worn, chipped, frayed, peened or whatever.

I've studied the mag, compared it to other mags, loaded, unloaded, pushed rounds out with my thumb, etc.

I just can not figure out how the last round in the mag could somehow get ahead of the round above it.

Anyway, I've spent the better part of a couple of hours fooling around with it, without discovering anything, so I think I'm going to go to bed and forget about for tonight.

Thanks for the idea about the mag spring

Y

[Bullseye]

This does not look like anything happened with the pistol, everything here is with the magazine. Here's my theory: The follower was pulled all the way to the bottom of the magazine when the rounds dropped in. As they were loaded the first one flipped around as it dropped in. Based on the further info of your later posting the rim of the first round was hooked underneath the front of the follower in the rounded end of the metal magazine. Because of the first round's position, the second round's rim, the one that ended on top and in the feedlips at the end, was below the feedlips when the bolt cycled and could not be picked up by the bolt. Both cartridge noses were extended upward when the bolt closed the final time, but the bottom round being closest to the chamber was pulled out of the mag farther. As the bolt closed, the bottom round was pulled outward, this allowed the follower and spring to force the top round up and into the feedlips, looking like it was there all the time.

The evidence: both cartridges have their bullet nosed damaged as if they've been stuck by the bolt. The top round appears to have it's nose bent a little out of the casing like what happens in a overfeed jam. The bottom round has a serious gouge in the the brass casing, but the top round has a similar gouge in the bullet nose and no marks on the brass casing. The gouge looks to be the right size and shape of the bottom edge of the bolt, the part that strips the cartridges out of the magazine's feedlips.

Now the solution is fairly simple to prevent this from happening again. As you can see the cases are loaded into the magazine fairly forward because the birds mouth cut for the rims is in the front portion of the feed lips. If the follower is pulled all the way to the bottom of the magazine the rounds can fall in the forward, more rounded part, of the magazine because there's less resistance for the brass casing. If the follower is only pulled down a little at a time, instead of fully downward, the loaded cases will seat on the follower face in a more controlled manner.

Hopefully this will help prevent any future instances. I agree this was a mag related issue and marking that particular mag was a good idea. However the mag problem appears to be more of a loading issue and could have happened with any one of the magazines. I'm fairly sure that you won't see this happen again.

R,
Bullseye

[bgreenea3]

you saved me a lot of typing bullseye.... I was thinking the sane thing, one of the rounds flipped vertical while loading the mag, I've had that a few times but always caught it before inserting the mag into the gun.

[bigfatdave]

It happens once in a while with the "ultimate cliploader", doesn't seem to be in any particular magazine of the 8 we've got of at least three Ruger factory redesigns for the mkIII (I don't think there is much mechanical difference, just cosmetic, I assume)

Edit to clarify: The vertical round, not the head-scratcher of a misfeed

[Coach1]

I have had a similar mag loading mis-adventrures with the "Ultimate Cliploader" Some rounds standing on end after dropping into the mag.. for example. But have always caught and corrected that. Fox does not say that he used such a loader.. but that seems like the likely culprit to me.

Since these were the last 2 rounds in the mag.... the spring was at its end-of travel" That is its weakest extension. So maybe a new spring is worth considering too.

Sure makes for one strange looking photo.

[Yleefox]

I believe your theory is correct BE. I put those two round into that magazine and pushed them out again, over and over again, until i was nearly blue in the face, trying to duplicate this issue, without even a hint of it doing it again.

BTW, I was using an UCL, which I use all the time when loading any of my Rugers. I'm usually careful to hold the UCL at the proper angle when I load my magazine, however yesterday, my wife had decided to shoot too. Since she rarely shoots, I was both loading mags for each of us and keeping a close eye on her too (just for safety), so perhaps I failed to hold the UCL at the right angle, and got a round to fall the wrong way. Hummmm!

In any case, I do believe the culprit has been determined. Thanks to all for their comments, as always.

Y