Mark II SCSA Range Report and question

mwwilkew · Post by **mwwilkew** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:04 pm

Thought I'd give an update on this pistol that you all helped me get running. I bought it in February and immediately had some trouble with the trigger. After quite a bit of tinkering and part replacement, it all got worked out.
http://www.guntalk-online.com/forum/vie ... highlight=

This morning my son and I both shot our first SCSA (steel plate) match with the Mk II. The SCSA match of course was alot of fun (the ping is satisfying), but more importantly, the pistol functioned great. We each fired about 150 rounds. I didn't have a single failure and my son only had a couple. We agreed we'd both like to go again next time.

Now for the question. The pistol currently has iron sights. We both did fine with this set up as its pretty easy to see the black sights against the white background of the steel. Several of the competitors of course had optics. One that was recommended was the C-More Railway 8moa reddot. Does anyone have any experience with this optic? Any thoughts on size of the reddot (8, 4, 2 moa) for pistol/rifle steel shooting?

Thanks for the input.[/url]

Yleefox · Post by **Yleefox** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:29 pm

Glad you guys had a great time. Sounds like a lot of fun to me. Can't help you on the optic, no experience with that one.

Yleefox

greener · Post by **greener** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:31 pm

Went back and read he former thread. Glad you got it fixed and are enjoying the pistol. Most of the holo red dot sights should work ok. If the plate shooters like Cmore's, then that's a pretty good recommendation.

Baldy · Post by **Baldy** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:46 pm

I got to go to one of the national events two years ago and just about all the top named guys were using a C-more setup. I am biting at the bit to get in our local .22 match when they hold it. I can't get the C-more right now, but I'll have a good time anyways.

blue68f100 · Post by **blue68f100** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:30 pm

Glad you enjoyed your Steel Plate Shoot.

I'm not sure I would consider any dot sight with a dot >3 MOA. Most have multiple reticles (different dot sizes). 8MOA means 8+" dot at 100 yrds = 2" @ 25yrds. My Mueller Quick Shot has a 3 and 5 MOA dots. I have shot it in bright sun with a light back ground and it still show up very easily. If the sight only has 1 size (8MOA) it will not be very good for shooting paper. Get one that has different sizes, then you will have flexability. UltraDot make a good dot sight too. Most fit the std weaver mount so you can take it on and off, without impacting the sighting.

I have had some tomato's that have gone bad and I use the for reactive targets

I was shooting them at ~50 yrds with my MKIII. I had them setting on top of T-post (fence post) and had a problem seeing the tomatoes, <3"dia. I hit 3 for 3 (with rest) which surprised the heck out of me, because I very seldom shoot past 25 yrds . So I tried it again several days later and it was not purty.

Since there is no back ground to give you feed back, makes it hard to see what your doing wrong. In any case it was fun.

FourCornerm'n · Post by **FourCornerm'n** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:55 pm

I'm only part of the way into researching the same question about optics for Steel Challenge Matches. Shot the Rocky Mountain Regional a month ago and was fortunate to be squaded with the winner of 3 or 4 of the events he entered with different guns. He shot 71 seconds for the whole Challenge in rimfire with a C-More, which faster than all but a handful of people have ever done at the Steel Challenge. He answered your question very positively: C-More with either of 6 or 8 degree MOA dot for Steel Challenge.

With all the superlatives I included about his expertise in the above, it is still up to you to determine what's best for yourself. I don't think that large a dot is very useful for other kinds of shooting. I'm practicing with iron sights now for Steel Challenge matches, not quite satisfied with the same guy's answer about using Hi-Viz non electronic sights, which he says are favored over iron sights. Too many people seem to go back and forth between Hi-Viz and black steel sights for me to be sure, YET.

Looking at Steel Challenge results, the electronic optics almost certainly are faster, but they award both iron sight and red dot optics at least as far as listing the results separately (and mixing rimfire results overall). I just like iron sights, so will continue with them for a while longer. Most serious SCSA rimfire competitors like C-More red dots, though.

mwwilkew · Post by **mwwilkew** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:18 pm

Thanks everyone for the comments. The guy who recommended the C-More to me was also a very experienced steel competitor. He said he had a few of them. They seem to go for a fair price...under $200 on sale. So if you go with the SCSA experst and buy a C-More, that leaves the difficult question of deciding what size dot to get. I understand that with the C-More you can buy alternate diode modules that would generate a different dot size in the sight. But that costs more $.

I also am torn between sticking with the iron sights and getting the red dot. It would be interesting to compare times on the same course with and without the optic. I liked and didn't really have any trouble with the iron sights except for picking up the first target. That was always my slowest. I was thinking an optic would help that. Maybe I just need to practice more with the iron sights. Actually, I'm sure that would help. But as my eyes are beginning to age, I'm also sure that I'll eventually be using a red dot.

FourCornerm'n · Post by **FourCornerm'n** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:08 pm

Look at the results of the last 2 or 3 Steel Challenge RimFire events at Piru, CA, if you want to judge whether iron sights can compete with good red dot optics. I'm not sure one type or the other is more fun or satisfying - depends on personal choice. For speed, once you climb the learning curve, optics are faster.

FourCornerm'n · Post by **FourCornerm'n** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:45 pm

Forgot to mention that I've "solved" the old eyes problem, more or less. I'm Medicare age. I had a pair of glasses made for reading at computer screen distances (desktop screens, that is) and using them for shooting with iron sights. Took a competition gun into the optometrist's and they measured the distance from my right eye to the front sight (which is about the same as reading on the 'pewter).

With these, white steel plates at SC distances are somewhat blurry around the edge, but the front sight is brutally clear and that's what matters. Once was told by a national bullseye champion that he could use his reading glasses to better effect for his sport, even though the black bull was fuzzy. (Danny Fung, BTW, who wouldn't possibly remember me).

As a result of my "shooting/'pewter reading glasses", I'm in trouble if I had to use my regular specs to try to focus on a front sight.

Baldy · Post by **Baldy** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:57 pm

I had my glasses setup to see the front site about 6mons ago, but now it's getting all blurry again. I got a red dot on one of my .22's and I am hitting the target again. Optics do help or it did me.

Post by **Bullseye** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:59 am

The target is always supposed to be "fuzzy". The front sight is what must remain clear. The target is nothing more than the object the bullet passes through and has no reason to be clearly viewed. For a better description look here: http://www.guntalk-online.com/forum/vie ... =1267#1267

Another way for older eyes to compete is to go to the optometrist and do exactly like FourCornerm'n did and get your prescription adjusted for the distance of your front sight at your normal stance. Or one can get a set of stick-on bifocals, like Optix 20/20 brand. These are a set of soft plastic lenses that attach to your normal glasses or bi-focals with water. See, bifocals are typically set up so the bottom portion of the lens is modified for near vision but a shooter needs the upper to middle portion of the glasses lens set up for near vision for proper head positioning. Rifle shooters especially need the upper corner of the lens to see the front sight in most positions. These stick on lenses can also be applied to regular safety glasses or even sunglasses they don't have to be attached to prescription lenses to work properly. The trick is knowing what size diopter value you need for your near vision at front sight distance. If you don't have a optometrist handy then you can go down to the local medication store and try on various sets of their generic reading glasses until you find the value that works at the distance you need. Walmart sells a set of stick-on lenses by a different brand name or you can order the optix brand via the Internet. The great thing is when your not using the glasses for shooting you can peel off the lens and put it away for another day. You can also cut the plastic lenses with a pair of sharp scissors to whatever size you need for your shooting dicipline.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye