Hunting Semi-Auto Project(?)

[RooK]

Ok, Bullseye, Len, and me were discussing this in another thread. The scope of this thread is pretty much a 'where to go from here' analysis. I'm looking for a handgun that can take medium game (deer) with decent accuracy out to at least 50 yards. I've got two guns in my stable that fit the bill, but need some help if utilized.

Witness 10mm Full Size

• -Better sights are needed. The only one available are LPA-style for $67 and they stick out pretty good.
  -I would like a longer barrel, but the only option is a 6" match barrel from EAA for $185
  -I already have everything needed to handload some heavy loads except the brass, 22lb recoil spring, and powder (x800). That will cost about $50.
  -Very little out there in accessories for this gun. Those that do exist will cost you about $50+ each.

RIA 1911 Government

• -Better sights needed, once again. This time, I'm limited to a narrow tennon stake-on front, and standard cut rear. I've heard the Yo-Bo is good, and I think I'm limited to millet for adjustable. Kings also makes a nice target set that hangs toward the rear. $30+ depending, please add suggestions if you know any.
  -I need a larger power cartridge than .45 ACP. This leaves three alternatives:
  
  • .45 Super
    Straight modification. Add a 20lb recoil spring, heavier mainspring, and EGW firing pin stop. That should tame it as well as any other cartridge on this list so they'll be survivable. I can use the stock barrel and just add a new bushing if I want slightly better accuracy. Stock RIA barrels aren't that bad. I'd also really like a 6" barrel for it, if I could.
    Cost: $35 plus reloading components and dies, $79 for Stormlake 6"
  • .400 Corbon
    I can utilize this with a barrel, but a lot of unknows exist. It's mainly geared toward lighter bullets and I'm looking for something in the 1200fps range from a 200gr bullet. I couldn't find SAAMI specs on this cartridge to see what it could be capable of if formed from .45 Super brass and put to similar pressures. Likewise, a big reason for lack of heavy bullet velocity is stated as the neck being too short and not allowing sufficent bullet pull. Could a heavy crimp with higher pressures (depending on specs) help this? I've also never noticed x800 used in handloading data for this. Why? It seems that would better velocities than the recommended Unique, ala 10mm.
    Cost: $35, barrel ($60~), dies and components, and a chronograph if I plan on playing with loads.
  • .40 Super
    Faster than the 10mm by 100-200fps. The barrel will cost $200 at least, since Bar-Sto is the only person I've seen chambering it. Might jump up to 22-24lb spring for it. Once again, components and dies will need to be purchased. Unlike the others though, everything is more expensive.
    Cost: $300+
  -Can the RIA take the abuse? The gun has a lifetime warranty, but it is a cast item which means something will fail eventually. If I go this route, I also want to slap my own goodies on it, including a beavertail, hammer, sear, slide stop, saftey... you get the idea. With it, I can always switch back to .45 ACP for general shooting and to the others with a barrel change (.45 Super by just changing the spring). I haven't seen an RIA broke yet, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. Anything out there beyond what I listed that can reduce wear, without spending a fortune?

I require so little to get my 10mm Witness in action, I'm buying the spring, brass, and powder for it regardless. The .45 Super seems like what I really want, it's just that I'll be putting a lot of money into an RIA. If I knew it could take the limited abuse, I wouldn't worry as much.

Budget: I'd prefer to stay under $500... Which also opens the door for me to purchase a Witness Elite Match in 10mm. They didn't offer it when I got my Witness last year or it would be in my collection right now. It's got a longer barrel/slide, adjustable Bo-Mar style sights, better trigger, hammer, and barrel. $460~ I can also use my reload setup for my current Witness on it, along with my current 10mm magazines.

So, where to go from here? Witness, RIA, or a new Elite Match?

[bearandoldman]

Rook, in my own personal opinion, I love to shoot 1911's but if I really wanted to hunt I would look for a good used S&W or Super Redhawk in .44 S&W magnum. Most of the Auto pisto cartridges move just a little on the slow side and the kinetic energy falls of pretty fast. One of those longe barrelled Dirty Harry guns would be my pick.

[RooK]

I'm hard-headed, I want a semi-auto. I have a 4" 629, I had a 7 1/2" SBH. I'm looking for something more unique and off the beaten path. It has it's downsides though.

The 10mm and .45 Super are practically identical in ballistics: 200gr @ 1200fps from 4.6/5" barrels. That's heavy-loaded .357 magnum territory with superior bullet diameter and weight. I know the 10mm has taken elk out to 100 yards from a 5" Dan Wesson with 180gr XTPs. So, both should do fine under 75 yards on small Kentucky deer.

[bearandoldman]

I'm hard-headed, I want a semi-auto. I have a 4" 629, I had a 7 1/2" SBH. I'm looking for something more unique and off the beaten path. It has it's downsides though.

The 10mm and .45 Super are practically identical in ballistics: 200gr @ 1200fps from 4.6/5" barrels. That's heavy-loaded .357 magnum territory with superior bullet diameter and weight. I know the 10mm has taken elk out to 100 yards from a 5" Dan Wesson with 180gr XTPs. So, both should do fine under 75 yards on small Kentucky deer.

Not really fami;iar with the ballistic of the .45 Super but think that is the way to go so you can shoot the 1911. Shot placement is the key to a quick kill, Hell a .50 BMG in the wrong place won't get the jod done either.

[bearandoldman]

Just another though to reduce felt recoil and frame damage a shok buff on the recoil guide and using a small radius firing pin stop th slow down the rearward travel of the slide. On my full size 1911, I use a 14# spring with a shok buff and the small radius stop and ther is very little muzzle jump on firing and bvery little muzzle droop on return to battery. check out M1911.org under gunsmithing and post for advice there are some very knowledgable guy ther on 1911's especiaslly 1911Tuner

[Keystone]

Just another though to reduce felt recoil and frame damage a shok buff on the recoil guide and using a small radius firing pin stop th slow down the rearward travel of the slide. On my full size 1911, I use a 14# spring with a shok buff and the small radius stop and ther is very little muzzle jump on firing and bvery little muzzle droop on return to battery. check out M1911.org under gunsmithing and post for advice there are some very knowledgable guy ther on 1911's especiaslly 1911Tuner

I read all 38 pages of that post last week and was thinking of trying it on one of my 1911's. Hearing it worked for you makes my mind up, I'll be ordering the parts tomorrow.

Dave

[RooK]

Len, do you have similar performance with +P loads and those spring rates? If so, that seems like just the ticket. A .45 Super isn't that much higher in pressure than +P (It's around 29k psi (6k psi increase)). Versions of the RIA are chambered in .38 Super and .40 S&W (36k and 35k respectively). I've heard the EGW firing pin stop with no rear radius was a must have for high-powered 1911s and I planned on getting one. I also have 2-piece FLGR that someone gave me. The only thing left to figure out is sights.

1911Tuner is a great guy in his craft. He hangs out at THR as well. But he doesn't have a high opinion of cast guns.

[bearandoldman]

Len, do you have similar performance with +P loads and those spring rates? If so, that seems like just the ticket. A .45 Super isn't that much higher in pressure than +P (It's around 29k psi (6k psi increase)). Versions of the RIA are chambered in .38 Super and .40 S&W (36k and 35k respectively). I've heard the EGW firing pin stop with no rear radius was a must have for high-powered 1911s and I planned on getting one. I also have 2-piece FLGR that someone gave me. The only thing left to figure out is sights.

1911Tuner is a great guy in his craft. He hangs out at THR as well. But he doesn't have a high opinion of cast guns.

Johnny is an expert on 1911's, he prefers the older ones and I think mostly the real Colts but he came make anything run. I have shot a few +P's in both the Micro and the full size, you would almost have to paly with the spring rate until they were toostiff to function and then backu up a ways. My FP stop has about a .062 radius and with the 14# Wolff spring and the shok buff it is great at shooting controlled pairs in defensive pistol modes, Target opens for 2 to 3 seconds at various yardages and you do a quick 2 shot on him at anywhere from 15 to 30 feet. That is my favorite practice program as the target opens 7 times and you can single or 2 shot it if you do a mag change after the 6th shot. I use a reduced size silhouette target and rarely miss the vital zone. You might post something in the gunsmith section on one of the forums that Tuner hangs out on and get his opinion.

[boomer47]

Rook,

I got into this a little late but I have been loading the .45 for many years and may have a solution for your problem.
The .45 magnum case has a thicker web so I trimmed some of them down to acp length. I can get 1200 fps over a chronograph with a Speer 185 gr.Gold Dot bullet with a 20lb. recoil spring in my Gold Cup with no sign of overpressure. I'll look up some of my loads if you want.
It's been a while since I was into the acp reloading so this may not be the best you can do currently but that load plus a 200 gr. bullet at 1000fps using the mag case kinda makes major anyway you look at it.

[RooK]

Len, I have no doubt he's intelligent in his craft. I've seen and ready plenty of his work. I think he's in to old, 1st gen Colts... with pretty much forged everything.

boomer, that's essentially what the .45 Super is. It has a thicker web to allow use in unsupported chambers. It's also cheaper than .45 WM brass.

What powders did you try? I've seen Power Pistol used to goo affect, but it's fairly new depending on how long ago you did some experimenting. Any idea if Blue Dot or x800 are good in the .45 for high velocities? I'd like to use the same powder with both the 10mm and .45 Super.

BTW, I put in an order today for some stuff from Midway, including some parts for the Witness (recoil spring, brass, mag springs, grips) and a McCormick beavertail and hammer for the RIA. I'll wait till that comes in and start playing with that stuff for a while. It should keep me busy.

[RooK]

Went to the gunshop today. Got me a couple of powders (1lb each of 800x and Power Pistol) and some primers. I also got some Tetra grease. I heard some good things about it and thought I would try it out.

I also got the card of a local smith who works on 1911s while BSing with one of the younger guys that works there (I think he's the owner's son). Anyway, might look into getting my RIA slide machined for either a Novak or Bomar. Wonder if he would machine a Witness slide...

[bearandoldman]

Went to the gunshop today. Got me a couple of powders (1lb each of 800x and Power Pistol) and some primers. I also got some Tetra grease. I heard some good things about it and thought I would try it out.

I also got the card of a local smith who works on 1911s while BSing with one of the younger guys that works there (I think he's the owner's son). Anyway, might look into getting my RIA slide machined for either a Novak or Bomar. Wonder if he would machine a Witness slide...

Why no, the miilng machine does not know the difference only the operator.
How is the forum coming and how are fall classes?

[RooK]

Last transmission as of 4pm with Globat:

I would really love to assist you further with this, unfortunately, this concerns our billing department. I have just reopened your ticket in our billing queue, I just updated and put your concern. You should expect a resolution or a response as soon as possible. Appreciate your patience.

I don't think they know who does what or there is a monkey loose screwing things up. I'm not certain about the latter.

Classes are going fine. Were just now to the point where I'm getting assignments beyond reading. I get Monday off as well, yay for holidays.

I've heard reports that some people won't mill a Witness slide because they're hard and dull the bits. Might have been related to a single model though.

[allendavis]

RooK

Just some observations from me . . .

You can kill a deer with a Ruger Mark II if you're good enough at putting the bullet where you want out to AT LEAST 35 yards (not from personal experience, wink-wink)!

It's also not a big deal to kill a deer with a good 1911 in plain vanilla .45 ACP -- again, if you can put the bullet exactly where you want. -- and that all the way out to 75 yards.

However, you already have a 10 mm auto. Hmmm... (I'm licking my chops).

I never shy away from bragging about my love for the .41 Magnum cartridge. Anything you can get the .44 Mag. to do, I can get the .41 Mag. to do just as well, and most times, even better.

The .41 is only .019" smaller than the .44, and with most bullets, the ballistic co-efficients are better and sectional densities are, for all practical purposes, identical.

The 10 mm Auto is virtually identical to the .41 Magnum, so you're way ahead of the game on this account. If your current barrel is only 5" long, just stick with that. If you need better sights, then upgrade those and practice.

I'd recommend either the 180- or 200-gr. JHP bullets from either Hornady or Sierra. With any full-boat load and good sights, you can easily drop a BIG deer out to 100 yards if you do your part.

Besides, shooting a deer with a .45 ACP is illegal in most states that allow handgun hunting -- at least with a handgun, and I know that here in Indiana, you will go to jail, lose your gun and your vehicle if you use a .45 ACP in any form. I helped write Indiana's original handgun hunting regulations back in 1984.

Personally, I'm quite happy with my Colt SAA clone in .45 Colt with a 255-gr. Keith-style SWC at under 900 fps with a maximum range of 50 yards. The longest shot I've ever taken with this particular gun was 30-35 yards. The closest was 25 feet!!!

Whitetail deer are easy to kill if you simply hit them somewhere behind the shoulder or in the neck. Only rabbits are easier to kill, which only requre a .17-cal. pellet at 400 fps. Deer are remarkably fragile animals, in my humble opinion. Not once in my life have I ever lost a deer from wounding, and I've never had to shoot a deer more than once.

I'd work with your 10 mm if I wore your shoes, but that's just my two cents' worth.

Allen

[Handgunr]

Rook,

Of the couple reasons I registered here, one of them was to answer your thread. No kidding.

I've pondered this same project (hence the handle) and went through all the semi auto handguns available to be utilized for hunting.
Yep, there's the Desert Eagle, for sure, but being a retired Firearms Inst., and a big handgun hunter, I wanted something a little more practical, and easier to carry.

I've had a Colt Delta in 10mm, as well as several 1911 .45's in my time, but something in the line of the 10mm, or 10mm Mag was what I decided on. Although Dan Wesson (now CZ/DW) produced a 1911 style 10mm, as did STI, they were both way beyond my budget.
Most 1911 producing companies stay away from the 10mm like the plague, except for the one's mentioned, so your very limited.

Considering the "Witness" style guns, I believe Tangfoglio (EAA) produces the Hunter Model 10mm, and that was a major consideration, at least as something to modify, or build to my liking.
At my old Dept's range, I've shot several of them in both 9mm and .40, but never in the 10mm. They shot decent overall. I always like the CZ75 style grip. It seemed to fit my hand well.

I'm still interested in doing the same project, but it was put on the backburner for awhile as I had several other pokers in the fire.

Take care,
Bob