My New (To Me) S&W 41

[johnnywitt]

johnny, you said:"I adj. the trigger OT screw and locktited it. Now, the pistol runs like a champ. It will shoot about anything I try in it." Now, it has gone from that to you having to jerk the trigger or have to pull the trigger several times to get it to fire. I don't blame you as it has returned to the same malfunction it had when you first got it that seemed to be resolved. It must be some little thing that is hard to find. Wishing you good luck! Regards

Yeah, I know, it was running good and then I started having this problem. It cycles like a champ is what I should have said. I thought the trigger was fine for a short while. Then, back to square one. Its been an ongoing battle. It confused me because it acted just like my Mk III did when the OT Screw wasn't dialed in. So, I got tired of playing and just screwed the OT Screw all the way in. This would eliminate the dang OT Screw as a problem, I would think.
Anyhow, I hope they can fix this trigger at S&W because I really like this pistol. A Ruger kind of feels like a airsoft gun to me now compared to a 41. Whole nother level of quality-when it works.
I'll keep everybody informed as my 41 saga continues. Maybe it can help the next Guy.

[Bullseye]

Kaz pointed out something I hadn't noticed in Johnny's posts, the original problem has resurfaced. I was just going with your overtravel screw questions, not really paying attention to the symptoms. This problem sounds to me like the trigger bar is not engaging the sear properly, possibly even the magazine disconnector is not allowing the trigger bar to raise up completely. Take the grips off and look at the engagement of these parts.



The trigger bar should rise up and engage the sear like in this picture every time. You can see more about this here - http://guntalk-online.com/Model41mainte ... disconnect

Also check to ensure that the thumb safety is not partially engaging. Many M-41's have sensitive thumb safety levers, and any pressure from the high thumb position can cause it to move the lever just enough to cause problems.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye

[johnnywitt]

Just got back from a 4 day trip and can't sleep, so it's back to jacking with my 41. Thanks to Bullseye I've identified the problem. I didn't realise a 41 even had a Mag disconnect safety, because my pistol fires without a mag in it. Well, my mag disconnector just stays in the up position regardless of mag insertion. I can pull the mag diconnect bar down manually and it pops right up- again with NO MAG in the pistol. I can also stick a tool in the magwell and puch the tab that the mag pushes and cause the mag disconnect safety bar to raise like it would in a normal pistol with the mag removed. It seems to me that somebody reversed the mag disconnect bar spring to where it causes spring pressure to keep the mag disconnect bar in the up position, instead of the DOWN position. Maybe it happened when they hard chromed the pistol and reassembled it, or maybe it's a mod. that I've not heard about (disabling the mag safety like you do on a Ruger). Anyhow, I believe this is my problemo. I've also noticed some play in the safety that could be problematic with my grip causing the safety to rise up just enough to slightly raise the trigger bar off the sear tab. If I tighten down on the safety though, it's hard as heck to cycle the safety, i.e., if I turn the safety screw down to put more friction on the thumb safety.
On a lighter note. Got my Bully Barrel and shot it with Dynapoints. Thing cycles great and only a few rounds went supersonic because of the cold and the fact the Bully is a 6" barrel. Had one FTF (retried round and it fired) and another FTFeed out of about 250rds. Fun to hipshoot, but no H-1 optic yet.

[Bullseye]

There's a spring underneath the magazine safety disconnector bar. When you lift off the bar there's a coiled spring under it. That spring fits into a groove on the disconnnector's shaft. Likely it is not seated on the spring properly, or the spring has been wound so there's no tension on it. Typically you have to rotate the mag disconnector lever counter clockwise 1/4 turn to install the lever into the frame. This rotation provides the downward tension on the lever.

R,
Bullseye

[johnnywitt]

There's a spring underneath the magazine safety disconnector bar. When you lift off the bar there's a coiled spring under it. That spring fits into a groove on the disconnnector's shaft. Likely it is not seated on the spring properly, or the spring has been wound so there's no tension on it. Typically you have to rotate the mag disconnector lever counter clockwise 1/4 turn to install the lever into the frame. This rotation provides the downward tension on the lever.

R,
Bullseye

How do I get at the coil spring to remount it on the disconnector? I see the spring and it is all the way over to the left side of the frame (safety side). Can I pop it back in with a dental pick maybe?
Have you ever seen this problem before, Bullseye? I think this is the problem, but with the grips off, the mag disconnect bar and the trigger bar appear to be in the fully up position even without the mag inserted. The sear tab and trigger bar interface look to be in the correct position. Maybe something happens to the geometry when the grips are installed. I just don't know. Sorry to be such a PIA. Once I get this intermittent trigger problem ironed out, this pistol is going to be a great shooter.

[Bullseye]

You just have to reset the magazine disconnector lever on the spring. You can do this without having to remove any of the other internal parts. First, remove the grip panels. Now you can access the lever.

To lift the mag disconnector lever off of the frame, use a small screwdriver and pry it upwards. The coil spring is underneath. The disconnector lever has a small slot cut in the shaft for one end of the spring. You will have to pull the spring out of the frame until the straight edge sticks out about 1/8th inch. Slide the disconnector lever onto the spring end so the arm points in the six o'clock position. Only slide on the disconnector part way, then rotate the arm counter clockwise to about the three o'clock position and push it all the way down into the frame. You will have to push the trigger bar downward for the lever to fit completely in the frame. When disconnector is fully installed, it locks the trigger bar in place in the trigger bar slot. The lever keeps the trigger bar engaged with the tab on the sear. If if the mag disconnector is not fully installed, then the trigger bar can slip off of the sear tab and cause a problem like you've described with inconsistent hammer releases. You may have to try a few times to install it right.

Once you get the mag disconnector on correctly your problem should be solved.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye

[johnnywitt]

You just have to reset the magazine disconnector lever on the spring. You can do this without having to remove any of the other internal parts. First, remove the grip panels. Now you can access the lever.

To lift the mag disconnector lever off of the frame, use a small screwdriver and pry it upwards. The coil spring is underneath. The disconnector lever has a small slot cut in the shaft for one end of the spring. You will have to pull the spring out of the frame until the straight edge sticks out about 1/8th inch. Slide the disconnector lever onto the spring end so the arm points in the six o'clock position. Only slide on the disconnector part way, then rotate the arm counter clockwise to about the three o'clock position and push it all the way down into the frame. You will have to push the trigger bar downward for the lever to fit completely in the frame. When disconnector is fully installed, it locks the trigger bar in place in the trigger bar slot. The lever keeps the trigger bar engaged with the tab on the sear. If if the mag disconnector is not fully installed, then the trigger bar can slip off of the sear tab and cause a problem like you've described with inconsistent hammer releases. You may have to try a few times to install it right.

Once you get the mag disconnector on correctly your problem should be solved.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye

Whew! Thanks Bullseye for all your help. Obviously, I got a pistol that somebody had given up on. Their loss.

Couple of questions regarding the 41's:
Is it OK to drop the slide using the slide release?
How about VERY LIMITED dryfire.
How normal is it to find a 41 that cycles most everything? You hear all the stories of 41's that won't cycle anything but CCI SV, or Greentag.
Again, thanks for everyone's help and patience.

[Bullseye]

That fix I posted earlier sounds a lot harder than it is in reality. Should only take a few minutes to accomplish. I don't remember if you said what you paid for the pistol but if the previous owner sold it at a discount because of that little flaw then you got a good deal. Someone detail stripped the pistol and just didn't know how to put the mag disconnector back on properly.

The slide release in a M-41 is a durable part and will not cause harm if used to close the action. I still slingshot my slides, but I do it with all my 1911's too.

Very limited dry firing is OK but you want to be cautious, firing pin stretching can occur if this is done too frequently.

It is not abnormal to find a M-41 that cycles a wide variety of ammo but it is far more common to find them being highly particular to their diet. My M-41s aren't as picky about what they feed but then again I have tuned them to eat anything.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye

[johnnywitt]

Finally got my 41 back from S&W. They replaced the slide stop ejector. It was bent. They also put the disconnector back to specs. Runs good now.
Shot the Bully Barrel with the new Aimpoint Micro R-1 and it is a pretty cool deal (I've never shot a pistol with optics before). I was out till almost dark shooting with the R-1 and I just turned the brightness down and was scoring mostly hits. I could have never done this with open sights. I still like basting away though with the factory 7" barrel with open sights & CCI Blazers.
I was shooting the Bully with a 6lb Wolff spring and Aguila Std Velocity. A few FTE due to short stroke and a couple of FTE stove pipes. Dynapoints ran 100% as well as Federal Champion Target and CCI Standars Velocity.
I'm just leaving the Buffer Tech Buffer in the Pistol all the time no matter what recoil spring I'm using or what power ammo. I don't figure that it can hurt anything. Anybody else doing this?
I'd like to thank everybody for helping me out with this one. Too bad it had to take a 114 Buck trip back to Mass , but sometimes thats just the way it goes. I got it for a cheap price, so now I just got it for a little less of a cheap price.

[KAZ]

Johnny, I'm glad that your 41 is sorted out! Those Aimpoint Micros are fun, and you have the best of both worlds with that 7" iron sight setup. Regards

[Bullseye]

Nothing like a good going over to bring her back into shape. These were things that one would have to visually inspect and not interpret second hand. At least now your prized shooter is up to the task. Now go out and enjoy it.

R,
Bullseye

[johnnywitt]

Here's the pistol. Little too much "bling" for some folks. Took a little heat over it. I like the chromed/SS look myself.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj20 ... 0556-1.jpg