MK IIII questions: minor damage (I hope) and finish - Help!

BirdMan · Post by **BirdMan** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:31 pm

Hi everyone. I'm fairly new to shooting (as you'll no doubt discern from my post), but I'm learning as fast as I can. I've learned a lot from reading all the material here and elsewhere online. I bought my first handgun, a Ruger MKIII 512 bull barrel (new in box), and I've been out shooting with it twice. I've put about 500 rounds through it so far and I've been having a blast learning on it.

I've field stripped the gun a handful of times and I've gotten so I can do it with a minimum of problems (it gets a lot easier after you've done it a few times) and I have Bullseye to thank for that. His page on field stripping and reassembling the MK III was a huge help.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid I may have been a little too rough with the gun the first time or two I took it apart. I made every effort not to be, but the thing was incredibly tight and I had to give it some whacks with a plastic hammer at a few points. I covered the spots I hit with a rag, but I've got some minor damage which is freaking me out a little. The gun shoots fine, and I don't think any of the areas have any impact on performance, but I'd like some more expert opinions. The worst part seems to be the side and tip of the bolt stop pin; there are some marks on the lower end of the receiver where it meets the frame as well. I've included photos below.

(I hope the damage shown looks worse than it is due to the macro photos.)

Bolt Stop Pin: Side

Bolt Stop Pin: Same Side

Bolt Stop Pin: End

Bolt Stop Pin: Underside

Receiver: Underside where it meets frame

I've also got some questions about the finish. The bluing appears to be wearing off of my frame on the back of the grip. (see the spotting in the photos) I've only shot the thing on two occasions and each time, I've cleaned it and given it a rubdown with a silicon cloth. I've stored the gun in either the original case or in an Allen pistol rug in my range bag (is that bad?)

Frame: rear of handgrip

Frame: rear of handgrip (different lighting)

Also, the bolt seems to have been incompletely blued on the right side. Is that normal or a problem? The color in these photos is about right - the bolt is an almost reddish mahogany color - very different from the rest of the bluing on the exterior - what's that all about?

Bolt: Normal (left side)

Bolt: Incompletely blued (right side)

I also just want to say again how much I appreciate having this forum as a resource. I don't know anyone around here who shoots, so most of my info and gun education has come from the internet (which is a surprisingly rich resource).

greener · Post by **greener** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:09 am

Welcome to the forum.

The incomplete bluing on the bolt may be normal. At least both my blued 22/45 bolts (MKII and MKIII) look that way.

Were the gouges pictured there the first time you field stripped it? I don't think you can do that with a plastic hammer, particularly the underside of the receiver. Unless you were very rough on field stripping the pistol either wasn't really NIB or you got terrible assembly and QC from Ruger. I think I'd have a talk with the dealer and Ruger.

BirdMan · Post by **BirdMan** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:39 am

I can't say for certain if the gouges on the receiver were there the first time I stripped it. I did notice the ones on the head of the bolt stop pin the first time, but I was afraid I'd done them, although there was no way to see them before I'd popped it out. The long one on the side of the pin is very shallow, despite the way it appears in the photo, and is just slightly through the finish.

I was actually really afraid to use much force on the gun, so I was trying to just use the minimum force to take it down. I use a wooden dowel rod and light hammer to remove the BSP and a pad and a plastic hammer to separate the frame and receiver and to align them back again when reassembling. I only use moderate hand force to reseat the BSP when reassembling.

I bought the gun from a very reputable dealer who seemed honest to me. I had the option of going with a used gun instead, but I bought this one new and I have no doubt that it was new. Now whether any of that damage was done in the factory, I'm just not sure - the thought hadn't occurred to me, but I don't think I've been 'that' rough with the gun. I've actually been trying to be as gentle as possible while still applying enough force to separate the very tight parts. If the gun was so tight that just applying the amount of force necessary to take it apart damages it, what does that say?

Post by **Bullseye** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:37 pm

I saw this posting early this morning, but did not have time to respond. Welcome to Guntalk-Online.com!

The good news is the gouges are all in areas internal of the pistol. Your bolt stop gouges can be cleaned up with a fine metal file. All you are doing is smoothing up the raised edges around the gouge, do not try to reshape the bolt stop or attempt to remove the gouge. Next, hit it with some cold blue to color and protect the metal. Be sure to degrease before applying the bluing solution. The bolt stop's operation will not suffer from these marks. This happens when the receiver and the frame are not aligned before attempting to insert the bolt stop. Place the bolt stop pin into the top of the receiver to align the holes before attempting to insert the mainspring housing from below.

The same goes for the gouge on the rear underside of the receiver. Just lightly smooth up the raised metal, do not attempt to file the metal down to completely remove the scratch. Then cold blue the metal.

The front lug area is a normal wear mark. Just about all blued models have a shiny ring where the front of the frame touches. Nothing to worry about there, as the metal is not gouged, just chafed on the finish.

How long have you had the gun? For new, that looks like a storage problem. The minor blemishes on the grip look like minor rust pitting from body oils and storage in a high humidity area. A little #0000 generously soaked in oil, then lightly rubbed over the pitted area can help remove the visible rust spots. If you're not satisfied with the look then the best thing may be sending it back to Ruger for a re-blue job. They have a good price for re-bluing their pistols.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye

greener · Post by **greener** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:19 pm

Bullseye's fixes should be fairly quick and easy. If I had damaged the pistol, I'd follow his instructions. If the pistol came that way I'd be pushing the seller or manufacturer to make it right.

BirdMan · Post by **BirdMan** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:52 pm

Your bolt stop gouges can be cleaned up with a fine metal file. All you are doing is smoothing up the raised edges around the gouge, do not try to reshape the bolt stop or attempt to remove the gouge.

That sounds like something I can do easily enough. I don't have a file, but I can pick one up - is there a particular kind I should look for, and can I get it at a local hardware store or would it be a specialty item?

Next, hit it with some cold blue to color and protect the metal. Be sure to degrease before applying the bluing solution.

That I can also do. Is cold blue a brand, or is there a particular kind I should look for? Would it hurt the gun to take it for another trip or two of shooting before I file and reblue the parts, or should I wait to shoot again until I get everything done?

How long have you had the gun? For new, that looks like a storage problem. The minor blemishes on the grip look like minor rust pitting from body oils and storage in a high humidity area. A little #0000 generously soaked in oil, then lightly rubbed over the pitted area can help remove the visible rust spots.

I've had the gun since July. I've taken it out twice - once outdoors and once indoors. Both times I cleaned it either that night or the next day. I've been wiping it down with a silicon cloth every time it's handled.

I've been storing it indoors in a climate controlled house. Lately, I've been leaving it in a nylon pistol rug (one of the $8 Allen zip up rugs from Academy) - is that a bad idea?

I'm not 100% convinced that the blemishes on the grip are rust - it's not rough or anything, but rather it looks like the finish is just wearing thin.

Thanks for your help so far, Bullseye.

Post by **Bullseye** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:38 pm

Nothing that you have on your pistol should prevent you from firing it. All the gouges are superficial and do not in any way make it unsafe to use. In fact, if you don't desire to remove the excess metal, you don't have to smooth it out.

A regular metal file will work fine. You just want to use light, long, unidirectional stokes with the file. Just remove the portions of raised metal, no more. The finer the teeth on the file the smaller the cut and smoother the surface. You could even use a set of needle files to work the surfaces.

Cold blue is just a type of solvent that is used at room temperature. When bluing is done on a commercial level the bluing salts are heated to create a layer of protective corrosion and a deep blue color on the surface on the gun metal. You can get some Birchwood Casey bluing solvent paste at a gun store or Walmart.

The pictures I saw may not show the true condition of the grip frame. The apparent pitting or flaws in the bluing finish could have been caused by an improperly prepared surface prior to bluing. I have kept many guns in gun rugs in the safe and never had any pitting from exposure to the case. As long as the lining is clean and moisture free the case should protect the pistol's finish. Keeping a pistol in a foam lined case, or box, isn't a good idea because the oils and solvents will eventually break down the foam and create a highly corrosive liquid in the process. If you must keep your pistols in a foam case, cover the foam with a cloth material so the metal is insulated from the surface of the foam.

You may want to contact Ruger customer service department about the finish on your grip frame. Two months is far too soon for your finish to be wearing out. They may offer to fix it for you. Ruger knows that some quality issues arise in any high volume production process and have earned their reputation on taking care of their customers. While I haven't always agreed with them, they've ultimately always come through and done the right thing, customer service-wise.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye

BirdMan · Post by **BirdMan** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:52 pm

Bullseye, Greener, thanks so much for your responses. It may be a few weeks before I can find the time to work on the pistol, but I feel like when I do I'll do okay. I really appreciate the help and I'll be sure to post the results here later!

melchloboo · Post by **melchloboo** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:34 pm

Keep a light film of oil or dry lube on the exposed parts until you reblue them. It is only when they are unlubricated that rust can set in. For the scratches you have on the outside of the gun that don't contact any moving parts, you could even put a dab of grease which will not run or evaporate like oil.

Also, some of the bluing on the bolt will wear off over time, but the degree of loss you have makes me wonder if you are adequately oiling the bolt. Don't overdo it, a very thin layer is all that is required. You can either lube light and frequently if you shoot often, or heavier lube less frequently if the gun is only shot every few weeks. Also, make sure to clean the receiver well. Fouling and build up can be very hard to see in there. You may have some buildup that is rubbing off the bluing.

I have switched to a dry lube to reduce fouling build up. I shoot mostly cheap ammo that leaves a lot of crud behind.

BirdMan · Post by **BirdMan** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:33 pm

melchloboo wrote:
Also, some of the bluing on the bolt will wear off over time, but the degree of loss you have makes me wonder if you are adequately oiling the bolt.

That bare (unblued) half of one side of the bolt was like that from the factory.

I want to make sure I'm lubing the right areas. Should I be okay if I just lube the sides of the bolt, the recoil spring, and just a little on the sides of the hammer pivot with breakfree CLP? Anywhere else I need to be lubing more?

melchloboo · Post by **melchloboo** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:42 pm

You'll get many opinions on this.

Yes, only half of the bolt is blued from the factory. My bigger concern is that you are adequately cleaning the receiver, as the buildup there is what will rub on the bolt. It is very hard to see in there to make sure its clean, you can have a caked-up grime deposit and not even see it. I like hoppes #9 and q-tips, I have found this to be the best way to quickly and thoroughly clean the receiver.

I am not familiar with breakfree, but make sure it is a lube and not a solvent/cleaner. Personally I use a dry lube in that area, so as not to attract crud and dirt that will give the trigger/sear a gritty feel. Also, I like to just lube the rear of the recoil spring, it will work its way up to the front. Grime up front is very hard to clean and ends up finding its way onto the bolt face and extractor and firing pin areas, where you really don't want it, so I don't like to lube those areas directly much.

Otherwise I would not lube any other areas. Over time you will know by sound and feel when the bolt needs re-lube. Also, it takes a few thousand rounds before things run really smooth, don't be alarmed by mild scratches and wear on the bolt, as long as they are only visible and cannot really be felt by touch or a finger nail.

I live in humid florida and have never had any rust signs using this method, but then again I shoot several times a week, dryfire daily and examine the pistol carefully quite often.

Also, consider that many target shooters never use solvent in the barrel, it is not really necessary on a .22 under most conditions. Every 5000 rounds or so I might clean the chamber with a brass brush, but not the barrel.

raw6464 · Post by **raw6464** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:28 pm

I just want to chime in on a few items. The scratches on the tip of the boltstop must have come when you reassembled the the gun as I don't see any way it came from disassembling (scratches on crown portion). The boltstop will drop straight down no matter how hard you hit it during the disassemble.

When you reassemble the gun put the receiver on the frame hand tight, without the slidebolt or magazine. Place the boltstop pin into the receiver from the top and while squeezing it into the receiver, very lightly tap the muzzle down on a towel until the boltstop pin seats itself all the way down. Very little effort is required.

The "bluing" on the slidebolt looks to me like it wasn't blued correctly from the factory. Blued guns will and do rust normally, that's what the brown stuff is when you wipe the gun down. It looks to me the bolt was not blued correctly and what it looks like you have the result of RUST and bluing.

I agree with Bullseye the pitting on the handgrip is probably an indication the gun was not stored properly. This would also exacerbate the poor bluing on the slidebolt. I just don't see the bolt getting that bad without the whole gun pitted if the bolt was blued properly. I would contact Ruger or your dealer, bluing on a brand new gun should not be that bad...and it IS bad. Your bolt should have never passed QA.

The good news is all the issues you have will not affect the functionality of the gun. It will shoot fine. If you don't want to go the Ruger route you can buff all that brown stuff off the bolt and cold blue it. If you don't have access to a buffer or Dremel, fine steelwool or 600 sand paper will work also to remove the old bluing. I had the same issue with a rifle bolt ejector and cold bluing worked fine after I removed old "bluing".

The other scratches on the bolt stop and receiver I would consider normal. I reblued mine but they do come back, normal wear and tear.

greener · Post by **greener** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:49 pm

This discussion got me into something I should have done earlier, not rely on memory. Some scratching on the bolt stop pin may be normal. It looks like the MKIII bolt bluing goes away faster than the MKII bluing. However, that could very well be a function of rounds fired.

The picture below are my two 22/45's. The MKIII was purchased new in December 2007. The MKII was manufactured in 2001. I purchased it used about 2 months ago. Neither have bluing on the right front of the bolt. The receiver on the MKII fits semi-tightly on the grip frame. It takes a small amount of tapping and the bolt stop pin inserted from the top to get the pin hole alignment. The MKIII has a much looser fit and no effort at all is required to get it to fit.

The bolt and mainspring assembly for the MKII are shown below:

The same pictures of the MKIII
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Both seem to have some scratching or bluing loss on the bolt stop pin. I can guarantee that I have never forced these pins in beyond finger pressure. The MKIII bolt seems also to have more bluing wear on the bolt. I have no clue how many rounds have gone through the MKII, but it doesn't appear to have been fired a great deal. Both pistols are cleaned semi-regularly with Breakfree CLP, or "mil" CLP and lubed with a very light coat of Hoppes.

None of the wear seems to affect the function or looks of the pistols. So, on mine, I don't really consider it an issue.

PS. Because the first pictures came out worse than the second ones, I had to field strip and reassemble two Rugers two whole times. I'm sure I'll get lots of sympathy for having to do that.