SD
On 22 ammo
Moderators: Bullseye, Moderators
-
Blindpig
You need to get you one of those little CZ bolt guns, SD. They're really not all that expensive, especially compared to a Ruger 77/22 and accurate right out of the box. I put an AS adjustable sear and matching trigger spring in mine and pillar-bedded the stock. I shoot my rifles from the port side and CZ is the only one that makes a real quality .22 in a left-hand model. Having said all that, I still am in envy of your 10/22 collection.Song Dawg wrote:Blindpig, Thanks for the pics on my next rimfire!
SD
-
marlin1881
- New member
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:09 pm
- Location: Denver, CO
I'm new to this forum, as I'm a regular on the rugerforum.com. I shoot a lot of different Rugers, and lately I've been getting into a league shooting competition at our local indoor range. I shoot a stainless Mark II 6-7/8" tapered target barrel pistol, and it shoots very well.
Lately, I've been getting into trying LOTS of different ammo with a consistent bench procedure, so that I'm not blaming flyers, wind, etc. My goal was to find a "cheap" 22 round that would shoot well, as I have some "match-grade" samples I keep around, just to verify the gun is shooting like it's supposed to. So, I went to the local WalMart and bought some Remington, Winchester, and Federal rounds in the 550 bulk pack.
I've also been studying different cartridges to understand their construction, and maybe understand why some shoot better than others. I ordered the Neal Waltz resizing die, and after experimenting with it and 8 different 22 shells, I've learned a LOT. Including the fact that my gun likes resized Rem Golden Bullets and now consistently shoots from sandbags at 15 yards, into .270". That's just slightly bigger than the best load I tested which was Federal Golden Match at .255".
The bottom line for accurate 22 shells, is concentricity of all aspects of the bullet; ie. nose shape, hollow point centered, driving bands consistent, and bumping the diameter up to .225", which is what the Waltz die does.
The Rem Golden bullets are very uniform and the hollowpoint is accurately centered. These started at .224" and I bumped the last driving band to .225" and stopped the resizing there. I'm now toying around with just truing up the HP, and then using the EPS flatpoint punch to just true up the length. And with both passes on the shell, the end diameter will be .225".
Neal Waltz talks about using his die on Wolf ammo, so I'm trying to find some locally. The WalMart Win and Fed shells are so non-uniform, that they are difficult to work with. If you're careful, and don't bump them too much to where the copper plating starts flaking off, the accuracy will increase, but they don't get to where the Remingtons are at.
I've got a lot more testing to do, but this resizing die really is making a very accurate round out of a "cheap" bullet. I'm going to use the Rem Golden Bullets for practice and competition. They're $12 for a box of 550, and I can probably resize 10 - 12 per minute on my RockChucker press.
Stay tuned for more results.
Marlin
Lately, I've been getting into trying LOTS of different ammo with a consistent bench procedure, so that I'm not blaming flyers, wind, etc. My goal was to find a "cheap" 22 round that would shoot well, as I have some "match-grade" samples I keep around, just to verify the gun is shooting like it's supposed to. So, I went to the local WalMart and bought some Remington, Winchester, and Federal rounds in the 550 bulk pack.
I've also been studying different cartridges to understand their construction, and maybe understand why some shoot better than others. I ordered the Neal Waltz resizing die, and after experimenting with it and 8 different 22 shells, I've learned a LOT. Including the fact that my gun likes resized Rem Golden Bullets and now consistently shoots from sandbags at 15 yards, into .270". That's just slightly bigger than the best load I tested which was Federal Golden Match at .255".
The bottom line for accurate 22 shells, is concentricity of all aspects of the bullet; ie. nose shape, hollow point centered, driving bands consistent, and bumping the diameter up to .225", which is what the Waltz die does.
The Rem Golden bullets are very uniform and the hollowpoint is accurately centered. These started at .224" and I bumped the last driving band to .225" and stopped the resizing there. I'm now toying around with just truing up the HP, and then using the EPS flatpoint punch to just true up the length. And with both passes on the shell, the end diameter will be .225".
Neal Waltz talks about using his die on Wolf ammo, so I'm trying to find some locally. The WalMart Win and Fed shells are so non-uniform, that they are difficult to work with. If you're careful, and don't bump them too much to where the copper plating starts flaking off, the accuracy will increase, but they don't get to where the Remingtons are at.
I've got a lot more testing to do, but this resizing die really is making a very accurate round out of a "cheap" bullet. I'm going to use the Rem Golden Bullets for practice and competition. They're $12 for a box of 550, and I can probably resize 10 - 12 per minute on my RockChucker press.
Stay tuned for more results.
Marlin
Last edited by marlin1881 on Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Nice Marlin.....unfortunately that's not an option for me, at least not at this time. Still searching for a good solid "cheap" practice round and then a decent match round. Will be trying out CCI Standard Velocity (for matches) here shortly.....appears to be the local league favorite. I like the ELEY Practice, but ELEY seems to be really hard to find right now. Some have mentioned Aguila Standard Velocity and ELEY Sport as decent practice rounds. NOBODY has the ELEY sports right now.
-
marlin1881
- New member
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:09 pm
- Location: Denver, CO
-
greener
Tried some Centurion (aquila) 40 gr lead today. The 22/45 didn't like to feed it and my Buck Mark went nuts: jams, stovepipes and failures to feed. I even had one casing hung up on the extractor. Both pistols had no problems with Xpert22. I believe this is one of the .22 ammo's you can get from CMP. I'm glad I bought a brick instead of buying a case.
Well guys, I've been on the lookout for a 22 target rifle for a while now and here's what I landed today. A 1943 Mossberg M44 that was still in its armory vacuum bag.
I'd say the wood was practically spotless but it needed a bit of cleaning with kerosene to remove the sticky stuff. I then buffed/polished it with bee's wax and it now looks and feels like it's new. I also cleaned the barrel and action and the trigger pull now repeatedly breaks at 3lbs 11oz. Rifling looks strong so I expect it to shoot pretty straight.
And it came with a spare trigger guard since the original looked like it had shrunk a bit. New guard fits perfectly well! Any info on this rifle from the experts will be greatly appreciated.
I'd say the wood was practically spotless but it needed a bit of cleaning with kerosene to remove the sticky stuff. I then buffed/polished it with bee's wax and it now looks and feels like it's new. I also cleaned the barrel and action and the trigger pull now repeatedly breaks at 3lbs 11oz. Rifling looks strong so I expect it to shoot pretty straight.
And it came with a spare trigger guard since the original looked like it had shrunk a bit. New guard fits perfectly well! Any info on this rifle from the experts will be greatly appreciated.
greener thank you.
Bullesey, I read one of your posts somewhere where you recommend we don't clean the barrels of our rimfires after every use and to use only plastic brush and/or cloth when we do. I'm a bit perplexed in that rods are made of aluminum and brushes from copper so how could they ever hurt the hard steel rifling of a barrel. And are crowns so sensitive that they could be hurt from above components?
Not trying to be argumentative but rather to reason this out. I don't want to be doing anything that could potentially hurt my guns and do clean from the crown end quite often but carefully!
I'll shoot the Mossberg 44US tomorrow and will share results. Keeping my finger crossed.
Bullesey, I read one of your posts somewhere where you recommend we don't clean the barrels of our rimfires after every use and to use only plastic brush and/or cloth when we do. I'm a bit perplexed in that rods are made of aluminum and brushes from copper so how could they ever hurt the hard steel rifling of a barrel. And are crowns so sensitive that they could be hurt from above components?
Not trying to be argumentative but rather to reason this out. I don't want to be doing anything that could potentially hurt my guns and do clean from the crown end quite often but carefully!
I'll shoot the Mossberg 44US tomorrow and will share results. Keeping my finger crossed.
Shot some Aguila Standard Velocity (SE) in my Mark III Competition Target last time out and was not impressed. Way too many "stove pipes". Now my gun may have been a little on the dirty side.....but not bad. Had some old PMC target on hand (Standard Velocity) and those shot just fine.
I'm finding that my Ruger prefers slightly higher velocity bullets for failure free shooting........but......the standard velocity stuff is more accurate..
I'm finding that my Ruger prefers slightly higher velocity bullets for failure free shooting........but......the standard velocity stuff is more accurate..
gcp: great looking rifle. must be a "rare one" to still be Shrink-Wrapped,gcp wrote:A 1943 Mossberg M44 that was still in its armory vacuum bag.
however... I don't think they had shrink-wrap back then... more like Cosmolene !
here are some notes that might be of interest:
http://www.cobs.com/lprgc/m44faq.htm
scroll down to the "44" section,
http://www.havlinsales.com/22rifle.htm
http://www.geocities.com/sloopitol2/1Openingpage.html
scroll down for some "44" links-to-info...
http://personal.swayzee.com/jayb/
good luck, let us know how it goes...
if you need/want 'mags', I understand that Havlin
is the-place to speak to... as they wrote the "Mossberg" book
on the trainer rifles...
-- toy
if you'll get some Aguila Sub-Sonics, it'll be quieter than a pellet-rifle.
Most 22 long rifle barrels are made out of mild steel. This type of metal is easily damaged buy improper use of cleaning equipment. Aluminum cleaning rods have been discouraged almost since they came out. The metal is so soft that it tends to impregnate with hard grit. This grit will score the inside of the barrel when used as the rod surface ultimately makes contact with the barrel surface when cleaning. A Dewey style plastic coated rod is more desirable for use in cleaning mild steel barrels.
The bronze brushes also tend to pick up harder materials and will damage the sensitive rifling. The nylon brushes are way more forgiving in this respect.
More barrels are damaged by cleaning than any other reason. The sensitive inner surfaces and the barrel crown often are the first to be damaged by improper use of cleaning equipment. This is not just my recommendation but virtually all of the top manufacturers of 22 target firearms caution against using bronze bore brushes, aluminum or stainless steel cleaning rods.
R,
Bullseye
The bronze brushes also tend to pick up harder materials and will damage the sensitive rifling. The nylon brushes are way more forgiving in this respect.
More barrels are damaged by cleaning than any other reason. The sensitive inner surfaces and the barrel crown often are the first to be damaged by improper use of cleaning equipment. This is not just my recommendation but virtually all of the top manufacturers of 22 target firearms caution against using bronze bore brushes, aluminum or stainless steel cleaning rods.
R,
Bullseye
