recoil - jams

[toyfj40]

I presume several here may have already known this...
but it was new-to-me. I was reading a magazine article
on a "self defense class", specifically on the difficulty of
drawing your weapon and firing in a brief time.
It mentioned that often times the eject/reload cycle will
jam... due to the lack of resistance/rigid arm.
*IF* you fire without having your elbow-LOCKED, you
may allow your arm to absorb some of the recoil,
thus moving back WITH THE SLIDE and not permitting
the slide-eject-reload to properly function.

I guess I need to be more aware of my "grip" when I
encounter a fte or stovepipe... it may be MY fault,
not the cleaning/ lube/ springs/ brass ...

I presume this is *possible* with our Ruger-Mark-22s
just less likely due to less recoil... but when just plinking
and a casual-grip... maybe a light-load... it may not be
the Pistol or ammo... FYI.

have a safe Halloween and "clock-advance" weekend.

EDIT: OOPS, thanks for correcting me.
I was *thinking* of ADDING an hour and typed
with brain-on-pause.

[DancesWithSquirrels]

The limp wristed grip has definitely been known to cause ejection and feed problems. It even makes logical sense that if you are allowing your hand/arm/frame of the gun to move backwards at the same time that the slide is moving backwards then you won't get the relative movement needed to accomplish feeding and ejection. Everyone who ever taught me anything about shooting always said to keep a firm grip.

By the way if you "advance" your clock this weekend let me know how it works out. The rest of us will be turning them back.

DWS

[allendavis]

toyfj40 mentions getting "jams" if the shooting elbow is not ridgidly locked.

Hmmm . . . I beg to differ.

I shoot (mostly) right-handed, but NEVER EVER EVER EVER lock EITHER of my elbows.

While I shoot right-handed, I'm left-eye dominant. I keep both elbows bent

I cock my head a bit to the right in order to let my left eye dominate my sight picture -- with both eyes open. Keeping my elbows bent means that I do have the gun slightly closer to me than those who use the iscoles (sp) triangle stance. I push the gun forward with my shooting hand slightly while pulling it back toward me gently, but firmly, with my off-hand. This creates an isometric tension that allows me to grip the gun quite steadily.

Proper placement of the trigger finger is important (but becomes instinctive with practice) and breath control is also vital.

I'm no Rob Leatham or Mickey Fowler, but I almost always bring more money home with me from a match than I carry in.

Allen

[toyfj40]

Hmmm . . . I beg to differ.

at the time, I was trying to describe a generally-relaxed
versus a more firm(locked) grip... not to insist that the
elbow-absolutely-must-be rigidly "locked"... just something
much more steady/firm and not-moving with the recoil.
Feel free to bend your elbow to fire in any manner you desire.

[allendavis]

Toy

I suppose I let your point whistle right over my head, but it wouldn't be the first time I've been guilty of being a little dense or letting something go in one ear and out the other.

It's just that over the years, I've seen more people than I care to count trying to teach someone else how to shoot, and they almost always get the locked elbow isosoles (sp?) thing taught, and it very rarely ever works in helping a new shooter learn marksmanship.

Oftentimes, I see the new shooter trying to learn with a bigger weapon than they should be using (i.e., .357 Mag., .45 ACP, even the .44 Mag., or even the lowly 9mm).

If one needs to jump from a 6-8 foot height, for whatever reason, the jumper wouldn't assume the most rigid muscle stance in bracing for the landing. Quite the opposite. The jumper would want his body to absorb the impact of hitting the ground. Shooting a handgun is exactly the same.

Recoil shouldn't be resisted absolutely; it should be anticipated and absorbed. By shooting with the elbows already bent allows the gun to "bounce" a little more naturally, and sight picture recovery is actually quicker. It's also far less fatiguing during a lengthy shooting session.

I shoot a lot, and I see other "experienced" shooters become exhausted after just 100-150 rounds of .45 ACP, and they use the locked-elbow stance. I don't even feel like I'm warmed up until I've fired 300-400 rounds. And it isn't really unusual for me to fire 800-1,000 rounds in a day at the range.

I'm aware that there are a number of different techniques for shooting, and I've tried most of them I've seen. Some of these have a lot going for them, but I think it depends on the individual shooter.

Not only do I keep my elbows bent while shooting, I also keep my wrists bent a bit, but I've never had a "limp wrist" malfunction, and I have skinny arms. I believe it's because of my recoil control. Some of my bowling pin shooting buddies have wondered why my guns don't jam because of my wrists and elbows. While my arms may be skinny, I have pretty stout muscles where it counts.

I taught my wife to shoot handguns a few years ago, and she's adopted the exact same stance/hold I use. She, too, has skinny arms. She might weigh all of 100 lbs. soaking wet, but she hasn't had a "limp wrist" malfunction since about her 10th full magazine full of 9mm

I wasn't trying to pick any bones with you. I think I must've missed your point in your original message. I'm replying at length like this just to explain why I must've misunderstood you.

Allen

[toyfj40]

...but I think it depends on the individual shooter.
... I wasn't trying to pick any bones with you.

Allen: no problem on my end (with the discussion)...
but as you just noticed... it takes A LOT OF WORDS/TYPING
to (try to) convey an idea "thoroughly"... then there will be
someone on the Internet that will find some 'nit' in it.

yep, "depends on the individual".
as I recall, I read a Magazine-story addressing some aspects
of "concealed carry"... and (hope NOT) if/when it becomes
a situation to use the gun... you want it to work, its not the
time for any FtF/FtE... and the "limp wrist" was mentioned
as something to practice-avoidance... so, I presume, as long
as the shooter is not over-compensating for recoil to an extent
that there are ejection problems... then "it works".
But, the original article and my reason to post the comment was
to help others to 'check themselves' and be aware...

so, now we've typed more than was in the original article.
take care.

[Charon]

Most autoloading handguns are recoil operated, and on those I guess the firmness of the grip is more or less important. I have wondered about gas operated guns, since the gas works within the gun. Wonder if pistols such as the Desert Eagle are as sensitive to grip firmness (given enough grip to keep from dropping it, of course).