Kimber's reputation?

Georgezilla · Post by **Georgezilla** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:24 am

I shoot at a public range and besides myself, family, friends, and a few other regulars, I would classify most other shooters there as beginners. By nature of my skill level as compared to the average clientele of the range, when I shoot I get some attention from other patrons, especially when I am using a 1911. Regardless of the make of 1911 I am using at the time, people will come up to me and then will usually immediately comment "You must be using a Kimber!" or otherwise inquire if I am using a Kimber. I have gotten that same question probably 100 times now.

I by no means intend to criticize the Kimber brand. However, I don't find any significant difference between Kimbers, Springfields and Colts, yet no one ever asks if I am using one of those other brands. So where did Kimber derive such a great reputation? I have done a little research on the web and I did not come up with anything.

Any light shed on the topic is appreciated.

Medicine Hat · Post by **Medicine Hat** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:03 am

First, nothing wrong with a Kimber.
The public conception there is- IMHO- based on advertising hype, compounded with 'gun-writers' uber-super-over the top "reporting" that brings in advertising dollars from some companies that all leads to more good press exposure and elevated reputation.
But still, nothing wrong with a Kimber, and they are able to keep high prices due to all the exposure. The goal of any company is, after all, to make as much money as they can.
Just my take on it, and I really don't mean to diminish the reputation, or value of any particular brand. A well trained and practiced shooter will do well with any well designed, accurately assembled firearm.

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:57 am

Kimber's are good guns, just overpriced and over hyped. Most other brands will shoot just as well. When you get good enough to outshoot the lower price guns, then you should have one.
Very few shooters are capable of outshooting their shooter, eh?

CoastieN70 · Post by **CoastieN70** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:33 am

bearandoldman wrote:Kimber's are good guns, just overpriced and over hyped. Most other brands will shoot just as well. When you get good enough to outshoot the lower price guns, then you should have one.
Very few shooters are capable of outshooting their shooter, eh?

As a Gun Salesman I can tell you truthfully that Kimbers are priced on par with Springfield, Colt, and any other "mid-range" 1911. When you campare them model for model against the others they are equally and some times lower in price but rarely higher in price.

Is their reputation for shootability (if that is a word) deserved? Definately, all match grade parts and excellent factory triggers, the most consistant of afore mentioned group of manufacturers, make for outstanding shooters.

The overpriced rep comes because most people are comparing the higher priced Super Carry or CDP line to other manufacturers lesser gun instead of comparable models.

greener · Post by **greener** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:06 pm

Welcome to the forum, Coastie!

I don't own a Kimber but all I've fired, except one, were great shooting 1911's. The one that didn't shoot well either needed cleaning or oiling. I don't know that they shot any better than some of the other brands I've fired. From my nosing around, Kimbers seem to demand a higher price than other brands' comparable pistols. Better? Who knows, I leave that to the experts.

I'm pretty sure Kimber makes a quality product and up to a point you certainly get what you pay for.

The "Kimber snobs" who shoot 2' 10-yard groups while bragging about how good there pistols are because they paid so much for them are another matter.

KAZ · Post by **KAZ** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:34 pm

My Kimber Desert Warrior is the best 1911 that I've owned. A few years ago Kimber built a run of pistols for the Marines (DET1) that called for the addition of a bottom rail (unusual at the time) special finish, grips, and no Swartz firing pin interlock safety. After a time they built the Desert Warrior for commercial sale. The one I compare it to is a series 70 Colt that I bought new and took to Fisher in Denver who built the 1911s used by Ross Seifried when he was World Champion for his work. My Kimber DW is for sure it's equal. I couldn't be more pleased, and all who shoot it want one. I have no experience with current production, but this one is sweet. Regards

Georgezilla · Post by **Georgezilla** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:06 am

Thanks for the replies everyone! I agree with what was said about advertising bolstering Kimbers reputation. I was not aware of Kimbers association with the military, that has certainly contributed to their reputation.

CoastieN70 wrote:

Is their reputation for shootability (if that is a word) deserved? Definately, all match grade parts and excellent factory triggers, the most consistant of afore mentioned group of manufacturers, make for outstanding shooters.

Welcome to GTOL Coastie! (I would say welcome to GTO, but I read what was done to the thread with GTO in the title

)

Many manufacturers claim to use "match grade" parts. However, it really does not hold much meaning unless they define what their "match grade" is. If one does not provide any data to support their claims, such claims are easily made; I think Kimber, as well as others manufacturers, fall into that category.

Medicine Hat · Post by **Medicine Hat** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:06 am

Many manufacturers claim to use "match grade" parts. However, it really does not hold much meaning unless they define what their "match grade" is. If one does not provide any data to support their claims, such claims are easily made; I think Kimber, as well as others manufacturers, fall into that category.

Agreed. Like the advertisements that claim "aircraft grade aluminum"
I think most any aluminum used on an aircraft is aircraft grade. But very different alloys are used in different parts. I don't think that metal suppliers /manufacturers have such a grade as 'aircraft aluminum' in their catalogs. ??

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:34 am

When I was a young man and worked at a manufacturing company in the engineering department,mine of the foreman in production always said" I give them the best stuff I have, of course when we get to the bottom they may not be that good but they are still the best I have"
Match grade parts, aircraft aluminum, high tensile material are all enticing terms, but you have to know the real specs to understand.

Post by **Bullseye** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:11 am

I've seen no quality issues with Kimbers. When they first hit the market Kimber tried to come out and compete with a lower priced quality 1911 pistol but then had to increase their prices very soon afterward. This I believe is where they got the "overpriced" moniker. The features they provide on their production guns certainly supports their higher price tags but I don't see Kimbers as being over priced. Initially they made a direct appeal to the IDPA/Action shooters who were just starting to drive the 1911 market and this was the reason for many of their pistol's factory features.

The Marine Force Recon folks have been using and building their own tactical 1911's for years to utilize the SOCOM standard 45 cal ball ammo, they never did warm up to the MK 23 SOCOM pistol. Neither did I, even with my big hands I feel that MK 23 frame is like holding on to a Desert Eagle. The MK shoots well but doesn't feel right to me. The Kimber includes many of the features they were retrofitting onto older service 1911 pistols. I knew they were looking for another source for 1911 pistols to replace some of their older framed ones but I hadn't kept up with a Kimber contract.

R,
Bullseye

KAZ · Post by **KAZ** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:57 am

On the subject of the DET 1 Kimbers seems they are among the rarest in 1911 history.
"The Marines bought 187 of the Kimbers. The members of the Det were allowed to buy a personal Kimber during the original order. A second order was placed and members could again order a personal pistol but the Det was disbanded before the second batch of pistols hit the Det.

There were a total of less than 400 of these USMC marked Det-1 guns ever produced. About 200 of them are in USMC hands. They are, according to Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers, the only USMC marked 1911 in history and the rarest of USGI 1911s. By production numbers, they are rarer than the Singer guns.

The guns arrived at the Det without the Dawson rails and were sent to Dawson for the add-on by the USMC. The pistol is factory correct without the rail and "issue" correct with the rail, Gunner grips, and some other small add-ons that varied.

I know of several of the Det guns selling for between $5000 and one sold as high as $15000."

Perhaps the LAPD contract guns would be more available on the commercial market. Regards

Georgezilla · Post by **Georgezilla** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:57 am

I never really intended to discuss pricing in this thread. Though I suppose price and reputation go hand-in-hand. I have looked up and compared MSRPs in the past, and I found Kimber to be comparable.
I always assumed that Kimber's had the pricey reputation because they do not offer an inexpensive bare-bones 1911 like Springfield does. Bullseye's explanation makes sense though. If you gear up to sell lower end stuff and then just switch to mid-high range market, you are going to get that reputation.

MH, that is a good point about the aluminum. There are some parts manufacturers who clearly define why they call their parts "match grade," such as Kart; however, I don't think most firearm manufacturers out there do define it.

Baldy · Post by **Baldy** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:15 am

I don't think my Kimbers are any better than my S&W's but they sure are durable. I quit counting on my Team Match II at 7,000rds without any problems caused by the pistol. The wife has put over 3,000rds through her CDP II without the first problem. They do make a good pistol,but I don't think they are any better than any others in their league.

Tbag · Post by **Tbag** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:28 am

Marketing, very good at ad appeal and saturating the market. I don't believe their production is in-line today with the product their produced years ago, but that is typically an equation of sales.

Great advertising dept. other manufacturers should take note.

greener · Post by **greener** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:41 am

I see North Carolina's Alcohol Law Enforcement (ALE) dumped Kimbers because of low quality.
http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/02/06/ ... iable.html

289 failures during training, including the safety buttons and sights falling off. You never know when that might happen in a shoot out during a liquor license check. I don't believe they have had many shootouts with bootleggers in the last 50 years.

BTW, Just where is the safety button on a Kimber?