Pondering 1911, need experienced opinions

bigfatdave · Post by **bigfatdave** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:46 am

So with some OT, some loans Uncle Sam repaid (tax returns) and just because they seem to be happy in my hand, I've decided to give in to the desire to own a 1911-pattern pistol.

I did some searching, and Springfield seems to be well thought of across the board, and their GI or MilSpec models seem to be in my price range.
The Para "GI expert" seems to fit the bill as well, but there are QC issues reported, and I don't know how much of that is just 'net bias to complaints overwhelming compliments.

I'm intending to hit a rental range and shoot up some ammo in whatever I can get my hands on, but for now I'm concerned with a few particular features:
1- Which models aren't compatible with .22 conversions? I'm pretty sure I want to have the ability to get cheap range time, and .22 kills paper just as dead as .45 ... I have plenty of rimfire target guns, but if I decide to carry, I'll want enough range time that a .22 upper might pay for itself in a few years.
2- Are there any other commonly-available budget models? I'm hoping to stay under $700 (more under is more better, of course).
3- These articles seem to give a good starting point:
http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2008 ... -1911.html
http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2005 ... se-in.html
... does anyone have anything they'd like to add to them regarding selection/shopping?
4- Carry/concealment may be a long-term goal, so I'm likely looking at commander sized as an option, but I think I can conceal a government model with a CrossBreed holster and a high ride. Sadly, I can't just slap a 1911 into my existing holsters to try it out.
5- For carry, it needs to feed modern HP rounds, so "ball ammo only" models need not apply and I'd appreciate any reports on current models that won't eat HP ammo happily.
6- I simply do not have workshop space or tools, so minor tweaks are about all I'd be able to do. I need something that will run with no more than a detail strip and good clean/lube out of the box.

Any advice or suggestions? I'd like to make a pickup before the end of FEB if possible

Tbag · Post by **Tbag** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:20 am

Leary of Para, the Springers should serve you well. While I never really carried my full size much, I have several friends who do. For me a tad on the heavy side, much prefer a commander sized model with an aluminum lower for my IWB carrying needs. All of the above with a very good belt.

Oh you can get .22 conv. for both full sized and commander sized models, though most don't offer a last shot hold open feature. To some that last shot lock back is a deal breaker.

bigfatdave · Post by **bigfatdave** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:30 pm

TBag I can get over a lack of last shot hold-open, I think.
With my existing BeltMan belt and a new holster from CrossBreed, I think I can handle the weight. I may add some weight to my existing carry rig to test it out, and be sure, though.

I've been looking at springfield MSRP prices, and while haggling and cash discounts do apply at my favorite LGSs, and I'll need to see what's in stock both new & used ...
but with MSRP of:
$643 for a GI in 5" or 4" plain-jane model with only one mag (weak) and low-profile sights (not preferred, but not the end of the world either)
$753 for a Mil-Spec in 5" only with an extra mag (nice), extra grips (meh) and 3-dot sights (nice)

I'm trying to figure out of the extra mag and nicer sights are $110 worth of improvement.

The 4" GI model is the same price in a lightweight frame, I'll have to ponder that as well.

How about magazines? Are the stock Springfield mags good, or will I be wanting better ones for carry? I know that 1911 mags run from cheap junk to swiss-watch precision with , any good ones for a reasonable price?
I'm trying to gauge the actual value of the extra mag from SA.

How about grip safeties? Does anyone feel there's a big difference between the flatter ones vs. the ones with a lump at the bottom?
In the shop (haven't had a chance to fire & compare yet) the lump feels like it ensures the grip interlock gets depressed, but on the other hand I've never managed to find a firing grip on MrsBFD's Springfield XD9sc that doesn't depress the grip interlock.

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:55 pm

I have 3 SA pistols a full size loaded that is basically my range gun, a Micro Compact which is my preferred and daily carry and a V-10 which is my alternate carry gun. All work fine with SA mags but any extra mags I by are normally Wilson Combat. All guns run well on factory hardball, Federal 260 Hydraxhock HP's, CorBon Powerballs( my winter carry ammo ) or my handload of SWC's. Prefer the Micro for daily carry as it is just 2 pounds loaded and the V-10 is 2-1/2. Can see no real use for a .22 conversion myself so I just shoot the Rugers for .22 practice. Not a target shooter at heart, all I need for BG accuracy is 2 minutes of felon, and the short guns do provide that easily.

bigfatdave · Post by **bigfatdave** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:30 pm

Thanks B&OM

I'd like the conversion because I don't reload (and don't have the room to do so) and would like cheap trigger time to practice enough for point-shooting confidence at realistic distances.
It wouldn't be an immediate thing, just something to keep as an option.
Most kits say: "compatible with non-ramped 1911's in 45 ACP only", some claim "not compatible with Taurus PT1911" ...
... which seems to imply that some 1911-pattern guns have a barrel with an included feed-ramp rather than a ramp as part of the frame. My understanding is that Saint JMB's design was for a ramp integral to the frame, not the barrel, correct?

Does that Micro take the smaller magazines, and are they harder to find?
Is any particular 1911 easier to strip/clean? (FLGR models are a bit harder to take down, right?)

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:13 pm

The Micro and the V-10 both are a full length guide rod but no problem to take down. How often do you plan on taking one down. As far as point and shoot practice the 22/45 points the same as a 1911 and is cheap to feed. The Micro uses a 6 round mag. All my extra mags are Wilson Combat and the bigger ones fit they just stick out of the grip a ways.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:43 pm

BFD I've got a SA Milspec 1911 parkerized, I've seen them about $100 cheaper than the ones at your LGS. I like it alot, its one of my most favorite guns I shoot, I've had no problems with 7 or 8rd SA mags or MecGar, although 7 or 8 rd 1911 mags can be picked up for $10-30 depending on the brand so it isn't bad if you need to try a few to get the one your gun likes.

as for the memory bump on the grip safety, if you like it get it if you don't don't, i do not think it makes a difference and i personally like mine w/o the bump.

if you want to put a 22 conversion on it stick to gov't or commander size and no bbl-integrated feed ramp and the taurus won't work with them so they say.

greener · Post by **greener** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:18 pm

I prefer my Taurus 1911 to the SA Mil Spec. The Taurus has more "higher end" fittings for about the same price as the mil spec. However, the Mil Spec is a solid, dependable 1911. Also some folks like the RIA's. Take a look at the used market.

I looked at the .22 conversions a while back. I couldn't easily find one that fit the Taurus. Also,the prices of these as much or more than a new .22 pistol. I ended up not buying the conversion. At today's price of ammo and if I didn't reload, I might make a different decision if I didn't reload.

Also, take a look at reloading. You don't need that much equipment or space. I know a guy who keeps his Dillon on a tool chest in a closet. He reloads in his family room. You can get into reloading with a progressive press for a couple hundred bucks.

bigfatdave · Post by **bigfatdave** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:50 pm

bgreenea3
"memory bump"!! So that's what it is called, thanks!
I need to shoot before I decide I like it, hopefully I'll be able to find an example of each at the rental range.

Those were MSRP prices, not LGS prices. My favorite LGS doesn't tend to stock SA other than the XD line, my second favorite doesn't stock SA at all (or much of anything in actual guns lately)

I don't know if I'll actually put a conversion on, but I still want the option.

greener
I don't have anything against Taurus, but with the QC troubles a friend's PT1911 has had, I'm a bit hesitant ... plus a PT1911 ends the .22 possibility.
I seriously don't have the room for reloading, unless you'd like to tell MrsBFD to get rid of the sewing/jewelry-making/etc stuff already filling the closet. OK, to be fair, I could purge some books and old kitchen stuff to make room, too. The apartment is pretty damn full, and I'mnot about to commit to something bigger for professional reasons.

I'm hoping to find some used options under the glass after this work cycle, do you have any pointers on the RIA line?

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:23 am

I prefer the no bump grip safety but to each his own, the great thing about 1911 pistol is they are like cars or homes....you buy what you think you like, shoot/drive/live it a while, and you get to thinkig on how you would like it better, and there are a load of parts out there to make your pistol/car/house fit YOU best. if you are not handy with the tools for the job then your gunsmith/mechanic/contractor can do it for you at a reasonable price.....and you are not stuck w/ someone elses idea of what you need..... I guess thats why I like m1911's, where your glocks are simple there is comparitively little room to have it your way.....

greener · Post by **greener** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:45 am

RIA (Rock Island Armory) are a series made by Armscor (Phillipines). Prices are on the low end of the range. I believe you can get a base model for around $400. http://www.armscor.com.ph/products.htm I fired one and it seemed to be a competent pistol. I've run across a number of folks who like them.

I prefer models of any 1911 with at least dot sights. The military sights are a bit too small for me to see well any more.

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t ... ge=1&pp=10
Interesting and long time discussion on conversion kits.

Post by **Bullseye** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:02 am

Both those link threads from Xavier's blogs are well written. Ultimately it is up to you for which brand pistol you choose. Since your intended use is to carry, I'd look at one that will carry comfortably. A full sized 1911 is not typically a model I would say is "carrier friendly", unless you're planning to open carry. SA's have always had a good reputation for quality. If you plan on making modifications later, the SA's are good platforms to work with and build on. You're not going to get a target grade gun out of a carry pistol, nor should you want to. Target gun tolerances are tight, this is not good for reliability. A carry gun must be rock solid reliable. You may only get one chance in a tight situation and one cannot afford to hope everything will work when needed. On the range you can get an alibi - not so, if the circumstances are dire.

R,
Bullseye

bigfatdave · Post by **bigfatdave** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:05 pm

Thanks, Bullseye, I wasn't looking for a match-grade pistol by any means, I'm sure anything from SA will be more limited by my "skills" than by the inherent mechanical accuracy anyway.
I think a full-size would be pushing it for carry, but I do have "ample concealment locations" and have been packing IWB for a while now, just not as big as a government 1911. What do you think about the 4" GI models from SA? I don't know if I want to go so small I lose a round ... I already have a 6+1 carry pistol for EDC, a bigger & heavier one would become a range toy and safe queen, I think.

greener, I am a big fan of 3-dot sights, which is a big part of what was driving me to a Mil-Spec. Does anyone know if the GI model sights can be swapped without gunsmithing?
I know that most real defensive events tend to be point-shooting, but I like to shoot at the range to build the comfort level, and those GI sights seem mighty tiny.

bigfatdave · Post by **bigfatdave** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:12 pm

If I was getting wishes granted, the SA "Lightweight Champion Operator" (SA # PX9115LP) would be a dream come true ... but at a MSRP of $1,076 I think I'll have to make a compromise somewhere.

So shiny, though:

<sarc>But what's that thing under the barrel for?</sarc>

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:25 pm

There you go Dave, my daily and it's slightly larger cousin. Understand the EMP which is like my Micro is over a grand now.