Question about carry permit

ruger22 · Post by **ruger22** » Sun May 24, 2009 7:39 pm

I live in a "shall-issue" state, which basically means if you aren't an ex-con, or a nut case, or an illegal immigrant, they have to give you a carry permit.

One of the requirements, however, is proof of "competency" with a handgun. This usually means taking an "approved" class, but the requirement also lists an Honorable military discharge as proof. No specifics mentioned besides it being Honorable.

My problem is, I got an Honorable discharge in 1976, but I was only in for a month. A temporary physical problem they missed in pre-enlistment gave me the option for discharge. They were totally ignoring the "guaranteed in writing" contract of the time, so I opted out. I was due to be sent to a different fort, with a different MOS, than they had promised in writing.

Has anyone else had, or known of this situation? Any thought of this short service discharge counting in place of the class?

I did get what firearms training there was, qualifying with an M-16. Actually, a military discharge is zero proof of handgun proficiency anyway, since normally only officers and MPs are the only ones to get a sidearm.

My kick with the classes is that the local ones have a reputation of being a bunch of Rambo types sitting around and laughing about blowing everyone away. Total waste of time and $50.

The license itself has a $50 application fee, NON-refundable if they decide this discharge isn't enough and I haven't had the Rambo class. I've emailed the two agencies most responsible for the permits and they won't give me a clear answer, saying they "can't give legal advice" by interpreting what the written statute means. A load of bull, I think.

Post by **Bullseye** » Sun May 24, 2009 8:10 pm

If it isn't on your DD-214 then your pretty much out of luck. However there is this online course for a VA CCW option. http://www.concealed-carry.net/

R,
Bullseye

ruger22 · Post by **ruger22** » Sun May 24, 2009 8:18 pm

That's the thing, who knows what a DD-214 actually shows? And I can't get an answer to that. I meet the other requirements 1000%. And handgun proficiency? I've been shooting to varying degrees for thirty years, and I have to prove I know a safety from a mag release.

Post by **Bullseye** » Sun May 24, 2009 8:28 pm

You have your DD-214 copy, right? That paper should be locked up with all your important papers. If you had small arms training it should say on it. When I retired, I had to go round-and-round with them because they didn't want to put my Distinguished marksmanship qualifications on the form. I told them I wasn't signing it until they were there in with my military decorations. I also had them add a lot of other training courses they were going to leave out. You have to be diligent or they will short change your form. I know that was a long time ago for you and you may not have been as aware of the importance of the document. You can request a free copy of your DD-214 here http://www.archives.gov/veterans/milita ... cords.html

R,
Bullseye

Bud33 · Post by **Bud33** » Sun May 24, 2009 8:52 pm

Think about it for a minute!!!!
They are almost giving you the permit so I don't think it is to much to ask that you prove that you have the experience necessary to carry a weapon in public.
That being said, you can get a copy of your DD 214, to look at, from whatever agency does that for your branch of service. It only proves that you were in the military and says nothing about what your training was.

ruger22 · Post by **ruger22** » Sun May 24, 2009 8:55 pm

I have my original given me in 1976. I have no kick with proving competence, just the lousy excuse for a class that they let suffice. I got more out of Chris Bird's book than a Rambo class would do.

Post by **Bullseye** » Sun May 24, 2009 9:01 pm

Mine has all the training data on it and a lot more. You want to request the DD-214 long form.

[DD Form 214 is widely regarded as one of the most important documents in the military, as it is a complete record of a service member's time in the military, awards and medals, and other pertinent service information, such as promotions, combat service or overseas service, Military Occupational Specialty identifiers and record of training and schools completed.] Copied this part from Wikipedia because it said it better and more succinctly than I could.

http://dd214.us/

R,
Bullseye

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Sun May 24, 2009 10:15 pm

Ruger22, why not just take the course and make them happy, yes you can fight City Hall but you will most likely lose. Go with the flow and life is much easier on everyone. As far as a .22LR for self defense, according to my mentor who did 20year on a major city homicide detective unit, it's better than a sharp stick, or is it. .380ACP i fine, I carry a KelTec as a backup to my 1911 Micro. Yes a well aimed and placed .22LR will do the job but under the circumstance at the time a well place shot is not what you will have time for, more of a point and shoot situation to COM which is the biggest target. Just my personal opinion, others may vary.

smokey · Post by **smokey** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:36 am

There were some of the "Rambo Classes" around here but I looked around and found a very good class. I am 54 years old and have been shooting all my life. I didn't think that the class would offer a lot but I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised. The class had a lot of legal information that I thought was very valuable to anyone who will be carrying. It was worthwhile.

Post by **Bullseye** » Mon May 25, 2009 7:31 am

I think the 'better safe than sorry' strategy is a wise one, especially if your DD-214 isn't clear about your small arms training. Once you have the training and it's documented, you won't need to go through it again.

R,
Bullseye

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:38 am

Bullseye wrote:I think the 'better safe than sorry' strategy is a wise one, especially if your DD-214 isn't clear about your small arms training. Once you have the training and it's documented, you won't need to go through it again.

R,
Bullseye

Following Government rule does make the people that issue permits etc happier. MI renewal which I just did now only requires you to sgn the line saying you have reviewed safety procedures and done an hour of range time in the last 6 months. New require a course and renewals used to have you watch a 3 hour video and stay awake while doing it.

SKnight · Post by **SKnight** » Tue May 26, 2009 8:40 am

One thing regarding competency, they're mainly looking for handling a firearm safely, not shooting proficiency.

If you can safely handle an M-16, you're good, with respect to safety a firearm is a firearm. Keep your booger hook off the bang switch.

greener · Post by **greener** » Tue May 26, 2009 9:27 pm

Ruger22, did you ask if your DD214 was ample proof of training? If it isn't, you don't have to give them the check and application.

I went into Retired Reserves in 1996 but didn't officially retire until 2007. When I got my CCW in 2006 I showed Henrico my Reserve ID card. The nice lady looked at me and looked at the card and said "Well, it does say indefinite." Seems that she thought I had changed since the card was issued in 1992. The ID card had nothing on it indicating any training. Neither does the retired ID card, which I believe they will accept.

I think they will accept your DD214. If not, $50 for a "training" class seems like a small price to pay.

Len, I'm not sure that Virginia requires any demonstration of shooting competency. I talked to someone within the last month who took a course with no range time.

greener · Post by **greener** » Tue May 26, 2009 9:58 pm

I just checked the Virginia State Police site http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_Res ... ealed.shtm

The court shall require proof that the applicant has demonstrated competence with a handgun and the applicant may demonstrate such competence by one of the following, but no applicant shall be required to submit to any additional demonstration of competence:

Among the list of things considered as proof of competency is:

Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services;

Looks like your DD214 would be enough

Tigerbeetle · Post by **Tigerbeetle** » Wed May 27, 2009 5:09 pm

From what you have said, all they want is proof of an honorable discharge. your DD-214 will supply that. In Georgia, a person in the military can carry concealed "because" he or she is in the military. Doesn't distinguish further than that. Carry your DD-214 down there, plunk it down on the counter and ask for the application form. If it is not acceptable, I would imagine they would tell you so straight up. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?