Looking for Opinions

greener · Post by **greener** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:16 pm

When I bought the S&W 22A, I bought it with the intention (re)learning to shoot and then moving on to something that made bigger holes in the paper per round. In the next few weeks I probably will buy something, but I'm not sure what. I've shot, and liked, 45's from a Llama up to a Kimber Custom II (I'm not sure I'll ever be good enough to justify the cost of the Kimber, although it did a fine job of making the first hole bigger when I fired it). I didn't like the trigger in double action on an H&K I messed with. Looked at an XD 45 ACP today and it was nice.

Hadn't thought much about 9 mm because the one Glock I fired and the Baretta P92 I shout a few years ago were not very impressive. While I was looking, the dealer told me I ought to look at the Hi-Point 9mm. Heck, for the price ($139) if I didn't like it, I wouldn't be out that much. An ex-seal was at the gun case and said he really liked the Hi-Point as a plinker. He also told me not to worry about the rattle when I shook it.

Anyone have any strong feelings, positive or negative, about 9 mm in general or specific 9mm or any 45? Big blanket request, but without firing a few hundred rounds through a pistol, its hard to pickout good points and bad points.

toyfj40 · Post by **toyfj40** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:22 am

I can't wait to see what you "Distinguished Gentlemen" do with this question.
-- seriously, Greener, you should get plenty of experienced advice on this...

personally, I've had a CZ75(there are several sub-models) that shoots
better than I do, but it is 'heavy'.
A new Glock-19 is fun, but not for target (though some can/do),
I think it's neat to field-strip/assemble in the dark with my glasses off!
I liked the shoot-any-ammo feature, but maybe not accurate beyond
a few yards. I recently tried some cheap-Blazers and they fed/shot fine,
but out at 40-50yds I couldn't hit a car-door... but closer with better ammo
it does the job.

I shot M9s last year at C.Perry (beginner Pistol School),
one day I got an OK pistol... the next day was one that
made me look like I knew what I was doing...
so... luck-of-the-draw, perhaps...

.45? if you're Single, you might be able to afford some Customized
what-ever-it-is you start with, before everything gets replaced.
if you're married... you might be single again.

Good Luck.

EDIT: just asking... is a 'Dan Wesson' .45 "on-parr" with a Kimber ?
-and- is it too early for opinions on the (new) S&W "M&P"?
... you could always consider a .50 GI

Post by **Bullseye** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:43 am

One question is what do you want to do with this larger caliber pistol? There's plenty of options but many choices depend on what type of shooting you intend to do with it. Kind of like a set of golf clubs, each club's design has a purpose. All the clubs are good but you don't want to attempt a to hit a long drive with a nine iron.

If your just looking to get a target gun then of course I'm partial to the 1911 style pistols. A basic Colt, Springfield Armory Mil Spec, or the like is a great starter gun.

There are many options that can be added onto the basic pistol as funds become available. A lot of aftermarket parts out there for customizing this type of pistol. There's also a big market in used 1911's that have already had some customization work and now are up for sale by an owner who's lost interest in it and wanting a wonder pistol.

Stay away from the budget makers like Llama and High Point. The quality just isn't there for sustained usage. Sure they're inexpensive and may fit a need, but eventually you'll want to replace these and then that's good money that could have been spent on something else more durable and flexible.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:46 am

It all depemds on what type of shooting you want to do. Most guns will OUTSHOOT the shooter anyhow. Myself, I just shoot for my own enjoyment and really do not care to impress anyone, us old guys are like that I guess.
I agree with Bullseye, stay away from the super cheapies and buy a quality gun. I am partial to and shoot nothing other than rimfire with Springfield Armory 1911's in .45 ACP because I like ithem and they keep working with very few problems. For rinmfire I use Ruger 22/45's as the grip angle is the same ass a 1911.
The biggest BANG for the BUCK at the present time is one of the Loaded SA 1911's as they have a lot of extra's on them from the factory, the Mil spec is a great buy for a an entry level gun.

Post by **Bullseye** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:10 pm

If your still interested in 9mm then look around. It's not a highly effective defensive round, there are plenty of other calibers that are more well regarded as defensive ammunition. But there is plenty of it available cheap, since the military is using it for their sidearms. I have a Browning Hi Power that I'm very fond of despite the fact that it keeps eating my skin when ever I shoot it. There's plenty of 9mm models out there to choose from. Maybe check around your shooting range and try some of what people are shooting. Everywhere I've been, folks are eager to let others try out their guns, so experiment a little before committing to one without ever having tried it out.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye

Ruffchaser · Post by **Ruffchaser** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:50 pm

I only have two handguns so far , a Ruger 22/45 and a colt series 70 45 . I would say both Bullseye and Bearandoldman had some influence there and know whats goin on when it comes to guns. One thing about 1911s is that they can be made to be very accurate , not that others cant , but with so much experience and parts available , its a good way to go . Ive read but dont know from personal experience that the springfield loaded target in 9mm is very accurate out of the box with the right ammo and that 1911s in 9mm are becoming pretty popular with accuracy that can beat the 45 , dont know but would like to .

greener · Post by **greener** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:15 pm

I've been trying different makes and models when I can at the range. Get to shoot a lot of 45's that way but not many 9mm. My experience with 9 mm has been limited. My experience with 9 mm has been somewhat limited. Will keep on nosing around.

Post by **Bullseye** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:50 am

I've had a lot of experience with 9mm in the 1911 style pistol and getting one of these to operate consistently is quite a challenge. These are extremely sensitive pistols and can be quite frustrating. Everything must be aligned perfectly for them to feed and extract properly. Typically the 9mm magazines are another source of problems for this caliber pistol. If you get one that works properly, they can be a great target gun. There's a slightly reduced feel of recoil in this calilber pistol and that gives you a little more target time with less muzzle rise.

R,
Bullseye

Keystone · Post by **Keystone** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:53 pm

Well, I've been reading this forum for several months now and never registered until today and but because of this topic I had to. I bought a SA 1911 loaded in 9mm about 4 weeks ago and am well pleased with it. I've put about 2000 rounds through it and have not had the first problem. The only thing I've done to it is a trigger job, the factory trigger had very little creep but the pull was about 5 1/2 lbs. now it has no noticeable creep and a pull of about 2 1/2 lbs. As far as accuracy is concerned the only thing that I have that will beat it is a STI Edge, but for the money my opinion is you can't go wrong with the loaded SA 1911 9mm. I also want to say this is the only 1911 9mm that I've been around but I've had good luck with mine.

One suggestion I might make is to clean any new gun before you shoot it, this will save a lot of headaches.

Post by **Bullseye** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:35 pm

Well, welcome to the forum Keystone.

I'm happy to hear that you've got one that works well. Having a 9mm also means a 1 lbs advantage on minimum trigger weight. Since your not shooting a .45 cal bullet, you get to go down to 2.5 instead of 3.5 lbs.

Take extra care with those magazine because they're very sensitive. With 2,000 rounds through it you've just broken that pistol in. Take real good care of it and it should last for a long time. Hopefully that gun won't get finicky on you, as many others have, but I did say earlier that if you get one that works you'll have a good target gun.

I definitely like hearing personal testamonials of positive experiences with various brands/calibers.

Welcome again.

R,
Bullseye

greener · Post by **greener** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:42 pm

Bullseye:

Pretty Colt. An acquaintance said that he had a Colt Series 70, never fired, that he was willing to sell. Tempting. Didn't ask the price.

Post by **Bullseye** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:35 pm

That one's actually a Springfield, but you can hardly tell the difference since they're both basically Mil Spec.

A Series 70 Colt is a desireable pistol. But there was a time back when the 70 Series pistols were made that Colt's quality control was lacking.

I'm always skeptical when someone says, "Never fired." That's a misnomer, they're all fired in the factory for testing. Maybe he's never fired it but that's not exactly the same thing. Well, enough of semantics, the way some people shoot their guns they might as well say, "Unfired." When someone only puts 50-100 rounds through and gun and then never touches it again, it's about the same thing.

If the price is right, then you may want to consider it. However it has been my experience that the "Unfired" tag usually means overpriced.

The Springfied pistols are actually the same frame as the Colt Series 70s, they don't have the trigger safety and the firing pin block like the Colt Series 80s do. The picture shows the red levers involved in the Series 80 firing pin modification.

I've also seen the new Taurus PT1911 which looks pretty good for a 1911 clone. Taurus has lots of experience with making 1911's since they provided Springfield Armory with most of their forged slides and frames for many years. They're only now manufacturing a complete pistol instead of providing the parts to someone else. Heck they all do it, S&W provides their 1911 forgings to Kimber, and Ruger is making 1911 forgings for someone else.

You can't go wrong with a 1911 style pistol. There's lots of miles on that chassis to prove it works. There's also lots of aftermarket parts available too. If that model was not a proven performer then there wouldn't be so many manufacturers clamoring to get in on the market 95 years after it's acceptance.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye

greener · Post by **greener** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:07 am

The 1911 is the one our rich uncle said I could borrow and even paid for ammunition and my time on the range. I'm very comfortable with that pistol. I've fired a Springfield mil-spec and it was just like the one off the arm's room shelf. I've fired a Llama 1911, which was pretty accurate and a Kimber Custom II, which put two big holes in the paper at 17 yards because the first three rounds were 10's at 5 o'clock. I've also fired a highly customized 1911 that I didn't do as well as the Kimber. Years ago I fired an S&W 1911 that I didn't like as much as my assigned .45. Basically, all the 1911's I've fired, were pretty similar in results. The Kimber's sights were better for my aging eyes.

My acquaintance said that his was a second edition, which, supposedly was later than the ones Colt had QC problems with. Did some short reading on the internet and didn't come across any mention of "Second Edition" model 70's. All of my searches ended up with Gold Cups.

Post by **Bullseye** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:47 am

I've burned up plenty of Uncle Sweethearts ammunition when I was on the Marksmanship Teams. Even since I've retired, I still get ammo from them, but no where near the levels I used to have allotted to me. At one point, I was shooting 5,000 rounds a month, match rifle and pistol ammo, and that is a lot of shooting. All of the pistols and rifles I shot were highly tuned by the armorers for match shooting. We even had some of the Ruger Government Target Models, but I didn't care for them at the time. They didn't feed well, and the magazines were way too sensitive.

Sounds like we basically agree about the 1911. I'm not familiar with the term "second edition" but there was an ownership change and a union strike at Colt and quality took some wild turns on the manufacturing lines in the 70s.

There are some differences in the serial numbers for the series 70 pistols. Perhaps that's where your friend got the second edition idea. Series 70's were produced from 1970 to 1983, then the series 80's came out. From 1970 to 1980 the beginning of the serial numbers had 70 and G in it. From 1980 to 1983 the serial numbers had 70 and B in them. Perhaps the second edition is a reference to the B in the serial number. In either case the 70 and the letter changed positions. In the beginning of each serial number series, the numbers were in front of the letter, and later the letter was in front of the numbers. The B editions were after the QC problems and things were looking up for the factory.

If you've ever looked inside a Llama pistol you'd never shoot one again. The internal parts look like they were made by Manuel in a barn with a hand file and some bar stock.

R,
Bullseye

Ruffchaser · Post by **Ruffchaser** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:45 pm

My series 70 has a G in it I dont Know if it was reblued or not but its pretty. I dont know what kind of rear sight it was milled for but is milled out all the way to the ejection port . It doesnt have any sights but came with a frame mount red dot . Not sure what has been done to it , has a colt barrel and collet bushing . Is plenty accurate for the 50 ' and 25 yd lines , not sure about the 50 yd , as Im not good enough yet , have only about 500 rnds thru it and is my first 45 .