1911 hammer falling
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1911 hammer falling
I have a Kimber gold match that a couple of years ago had a well known gunsmith perform a trigger job to lower down to around 3#. I have not shot it that much becuase of 45ACP costs since I have been shooting my 9mm. Yesterday after cleaning I noticed that when you lock the slide open and then release it if you have too much grip pressure that the hammer will fall. It does not drop to the full fire position. If you do not put much pressure on the grip safety it does not seem to fall as many times. Any ideas what is going on?
If your hammer hook is not damaged, then your hammer is falling to half cock from sear bounce. This is can happen to a pistol that has had a trigger job to lighten the pull and then broken in from use. First, does this only happen when you let the slam closed on an empty chamber? Caution - Letting the slide slam closed on a tuned trigger is not good for your trigger job or your barrel lugs. You should be holding the hammer back with your left thumb when letting the slide close to protect the highly honed edge of your sear.
Also, check to see that your trigger pull weight hasn't gotten any lighter. If it has, then you may have to increase your sear return fork spring tension pressure slightly. (left most fork when looking from the rear of the receiver)
R,
Bullseye
Also, check to see that your trigger pull weight hasn't gotten any lighter. If it has, then you may have to increase your sear return fork spring tension pressure slightly. (left most fork when looking from the rear of the receiver)
R,
Bullseye
The trigger does not seem to be any lighter. It is just around 3#. The hammer does drop when you slam on an empty chamber, but not all the time. Thanks for the input. I did not know to hold back on the hammer when releasing the slide to project the sear and parts, but it makes sense. I am trying to understand the workings of the 1911 better and with help from this site and yours I am gaing valuable knowledge. The internet and this site is priceless.
I'm assuming you are a right-handed shooter. To hold the trigger back while closing the slide on a tuned pistol, place your left thumb (non-shooting hand) up under the rear of the slide and hold the hammer against the top of the grip safety. Next, use the left forefinger and push downward on the slide stop and release the slide in a normal manner, all while still holding the hammer rearward. The slide will move forward rapidly, above the thumb, until its fully closed. The thumb continues it pressure and holds the hammer rearwards, preventing its fall. Ease up pressure on the hammer with the left hand's thumb to ensure the hammer stays locked in the cocked position on the sear. You have just held the hammer rearward and protected your sear face from hammer follow.
Ensure that your right hand trigger finger is extended forward out of the trigger guard to prevent accidentally activating the trigger during the closing sequence.
Hope this helps.
R,
Bullseye
Ensure that your right hand trigger finger is extended forward out of the trigger guard to prevent accidentally activating the trigger during the closing sequence.
Hope this helps.
R,
Bullseye
Holding the hammer back with the left thumb is though when there is a high bever tail on the grip safety but it can be done but feels awkward. Thinking about shooting the IDPA for fun and learning at our range but if this requires a magazine change don't know if this method would work. If the sear return fork spring is adjusted would this fix the hammer from falling? Is this something that I can do or should this go back to the gunsmith for looking? I may completely strip the pistol this weekend, first time for me on a 1911, and see what everything looks like.
I understood this problem to only exist when you close the slide on an empty chamber. You should be able to close the slide normally during IDPA competition. When you release the slide with a full magazine, the bolt will be slowed by stripping a round out of the magazine and the hammer should not fall to half cock. If it does, then you have a much bigger problem and should take your gun back to whomever performed the trigger job.
R,
Bullseye
R,
Bullseye
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melchloboo
- Regular contributor
- Posts: 181
- Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:31 am
I purchased a used bullseye 1911 recently and got much feedback on this same problem:
1. Some say do not worry about this, just hold the hammer down with left hand while releasing slide as Bullseye says. Many tuned .45s have this "issue".
2. Others say the gun is unsafe and there is potential for accidental discharge and/or full-auto. It is the mark of a poor trigger job, or your failure to protect the surfaces by following #1 above every time.
3. Still more controversial is the technique of holding in the trigger while releasing the slide, then releasing the trigger to reset the sear. This works and some do it religiously, others consider it a dangerous practice.
A member of my club with an outstanding track record for 1911 trigger jobs volunteered his services and got me back to a hammer that doesn't fall to half-cock when the slide releases. My feeling is you can have a great trigger job and a safe gun, there should not be compromise. Then again if its purely a range gun and its always pointed in a safe direction, well...like I say I guy in my club has tens of thousands of rounds through a gun with the same condition.
You need to do what you feel is safe but quite a few people would consider the hammer follow unsafe (even if it only falls to half cock) and the gunsmith who did the work should remedy the problem. Also, 3# is lighter than I think most people go, even bullseye shooters, which may indicate the angles are too aggressive and contributing to the problem. But it could be many things. Whatever the cause, it should not be expensive to fix.
1. Some say do not worry about this, just hold the hammer down with left hand while releasing slide as Bullseye says. Many tuned .45s have this "issue".
2. Others say the gun is unsafe and there is potential for accidental discharge and/or full-auto. It is the mark of a poor trigger job, or your failure to protect the surfaces by following #1 above every time.
3. Still more controversial is the technique of holding in the trigger while releasing the slide, then releasing the trigger to reset the sear. This works and some do it religiously, others consider it a dangerous practice.
A member of my club with an outstanding track record for 1911 trigger jobs volunteered his services and got me back to a hammer that doesn't fall to half-cock when the slide releases. My feeling is you can have a great trigger job and a safe gun, there should not be compromise. Then again if its purely a range gun and its always pointed in a safe direction, well...like I say I guy in my club has tens of thousands of rounds through a gun with the same condition.
You need to do what you feel is safe but quite a few people would consider the hammer follow unsafe (even if it only falls to half cock) and the gunsmith who did the work should remedy the problem. Also, 3# is lighter than I think most people go, even bullseye shooters, which may indicate the angles are too aggressive and contributing to the problem. But it could be many things. Whatever the cause, it should not be expensive to fix.
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melchloboo
- Regular contributor
- Posts: 181
- Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:31 am
Oh yeah, and if you look at my Ruger posts you'll see I'm the first to try to fix something myself.
But I would not mess with this issue if you are not familiar with 1911s. If it is the angle on the sear, then this can only be corrected by someone who has the proper jig to get everything aligned properly, then fix the angle or possibly replace a part. 1911 trigger jobs not like a revolver trigger job you can do on a kitchen table.
Also note, there is some disagreement about how necessary holding the hammer down is. It depends on many things, like how aggressive the trigger job, the surfaces, etc. Bullseye shooters are very particular about how the trigger breaks and want to protect things. Other shooters don't notice subtle creep and don't care so much.
If you want to use the gun for other disciplines aside from bullseye, you'll need this problem fixed. Otherwise you will find things very awkward. And frankly, some range officers might not want you using a gun that falls to half-cock when the slide drops for any kind of action-shooting.
Again don't dismay, its a common problem and easily fixable. Your gunsmith who did the job should do it for free, as it is (arguably) unsafe.
But I would not mess with this issue if you are not familiar with 1911s. If it is the angle on the sear, then this can only be corrected by someone who has the proper jig to get everything aligned properly, then fix the angle or possibly replace a part. 1911 trigger jobs not like a revolver trigger job you can do on a kitchen table.
Also note, there is some disagreement about how necessary holding the hammer down is. It depends on many things, like how aggressive the trigger job, the surfaces, etc. Bullseye shooters are very particular about how the trigger breaks and want to protect things. Other shooters don't notice subtle creep and don't care so much.
If you want to use the gun for other disciplines aside from bullseye, you'll need this problem fixed. Otherwise you will find things very awkward. And frankly, some range officers might not want you using a gun that falls to half-cock when the slide drops for any kind of action-shooting.
Again don't dismay, its a common problem and easily fixable. Your gunsmith who did the job should do it for free, as it is (arguably) unsafe.
I shot Bullseye for about 10 years with mostly hardball guns since my main concern was that Little gold thing in my avatar!!!
The hard ball gun had a 4# trigger and the wad gun was between 3.5 and 4 #..
One of the first things I was taught when I started shooting was ALWAYS hold the hammer when closing the slide.
I was later trained at the small arms training unit to build match weapons for the Navy. I know how hammer hooks are cut and I know how to cut a sear . If they are done properly, they should not drop when releasing the slide. Notice I said SHOULD not drop but after some use the angle could change a little or just polish off but the mechanics of a match trigger means that it is ALWAYS possible that the hammer will follow the slide forward and for that reason, The hammer should ALWAYS be held when releasing the slide, both for safety and to protect your trigger job.
The hard ball gun had a 4# trigger and the wad gun was between 3.5 and 4 #..
One of the first things I was taught when I started shooting was ALWAYS hold the hammer when closing the slide.
I was later trained at the small arms training unit to build match weapons for the Navy. I know how hammer hooks are cut and I know how to cut a sear . If they are done properly, they should not drop when releasing the slide. Notice I said SHOULD not drop but after some use the angle could change a little or just polish off but the mechanics of a match trigger means that it is ALWAYS possible that the hammer will follow the slide forward and for that reason, The hammer should ALWAYS be held when releasing the slide, both for safety and to protect your trigger job.
Bud
Beware the man who only has one gun.
HE PROBABLY KNOWS HOW TO USE IT!!!
Beware the man who only has one gun.
HE PROBABLY KNOWS HOW TO USE IT!!!
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melchloboo
- Regular contributor
- Posts: 181
- Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:31 am
Not necessarily.. It is hard to say without seeing the gun...melchloboo wrote:Bud-are you saying he should get his gun fixed?
I believe he should have it checked by a competent gun smith but the condition that he describes, is not uncommon in 1911 guns with a match trigger job.
Bud
Beware the man who only has one gun.
HE PROBABLY KNOWS HOW TO USE IT!!!
Beware the man who only has one gun.
HE PROBABLY KNOWS HOW TO USE IT!!!
[EDIT] I tried to post this earlier this morning but it wouldn't go through -
The 1911's trigger is dependent on many factors. This is why I hesitate to give 1911 adjustment instructions to anyone without seeing the weapon. An incorrectly performed trigger job can give the same indication of one with the sear spring adjusted incorrectly. Another possibility is a worn part and this can cause the same type of symptom.
I have always used the hammer hold technique and never has it given me trouble. If this is a bullseye gun then it is not set-up for IDPA competition. One would be better served to use a more combat oriented pistol rather than a bulleye match pistol. Bullseye pistols were never designed to be carried in holsters and jostled around. They are tightly manufactured pistols for accuracy on the firing line and one reason that conventional pistol rules allow for alibis is they do experience functioning failures in competition because of the tight tolerances.
R,
Bullseye
The 1911's trigger is dependent on many factors. This is why I hesitate to give 1911 adjustment instructions to anyone without seeing the weapon. An incorrectly performed trigger job can give the same indication of one with the sear spring adjusted incorrectly. Another possibility is a worn part and this can cause the same type of symptom.
I have always used the hammer hold technique and never has it given me trouble. If this is a bullseye gun then it is not set-up for IDPA competition. One would be better served to use a more combat oriented pistol rather than a bulleye match pistol. Bullseye pistols were never designed to be carried in holsters and jostled around. They are tightly manufactured pistols for accuracy on the firing line and one reason that conventional pistol rules allow for alibis is they do experience functioning failures in competition because of the tight tolerances.
R,
Bullseye