GunTalk-Online.com

Posted: **Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:49 pm**

EDIT-NOTE: see end of thread, S&W replaced the barrel.

OK, I'll show (more of) my INexperience...
I was at the range (new membership, convenient to the house).
and took my SW 22A-1 (didn't want to risk my 22/45).

I took some misc. .22LR to just "shoot" and get aquainted
with the range... Shot a couple-hundred rounds of some old
coated-Federals and they were just fine. Then I was going to
finish-off a brick of Rem:ThunderBolts that didn't shoot well
(actually very poorly) in a rifle several weeks ago...

after about one Mag of Rem:TB, there was NO-grouping,
off the paper and "tumbles" and fragmenting (paper-cuts
were not Holes, they were slices)... Well, I attrributed it to
the TBs... after I got home and inspected a little closer
my barrel is now Lead-Lined, SuperBoy would not be able
to see inside to inspect it!

I presume I should not use my long (dental-type) picks to
scrape the lead out of the grooves...

Am I EVER glad I decided to NOT take my Ruger or BuckMark!

I have my powder-solvent and lubes... but never bothered
to consider Lead-Solvent/cleaner... What Works ??

ThunderBolts are not THAT-BAD of a cartridge...
Is serious leading more of a barrel-problem ?
too tight? grooves-too-high? bullet going down the barrel
too FAST or SLOW to get in the grooves ?
or just a Lead-dia vs Barrel-dia mis-match and don't use
those in that one anymore... -thanks

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:45 am**

I can't imagine you getting that much leading with only 10 rounds fired unless the barrel is very rough or you got a terrible batch of ammo.
You say the Rem. TB did not perform in a rifle. Did they lead up the rifle barrel too?
One solution would be to plug the muzzle end, stand the barrel up and use a syringe to fill the barrel with solvent from the chamber end.
I use Kroil or Lead Out Bore Cleaner. Let it stand for 10 minutes or so, then scrub it with a BRASS or nylon brush. Repeat if needed.
Then I'd find some other way to get rid of the TBS.

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2005 1:31 pm**

boomer47 wrote: I can't imagine you getting that much leading with only 10 rounds fired
unless the barrel is very rough or you got a terrible batch of ammo.
You say the Rem. TB did not perform in a rifle.
Did they lead up the rifle barrel too?
One solution would be to plug the muzzle end, stand the barrel up
and use a syringe to fill the barrel with solvent from the chamber end.
I use Kroil or Lead Out Bore Cleaner. Let it stand for 10 minutes or so,
then scrub it with a BRASS or nylon brush. Repeat if needed.
Then I'd find some other way to get rid of the TBS.

1. someone at the range "liked TBs"... he now has them
and he traded me some Federals.
I shot 200 rounds of some old Federal-Hi-Power,
with maybe one-FtF. They grouped just fine, as I was concentrating
on my sighting and grip and stance and one/two hand.
2. the rifle is kept at my uncle's ("on the ranch"), I ran a patch
thru it... it was "dirty", but not fouled like this.
3. I cannot insert my "Aluminum Cleaning Rod", the barrel has
too much lead. I "picked" away several-flakes near the muzzle,
but did not want to continue with the "dental-pick".
Maybe I should get a .17-cleaning-rod/brush ??
4. It was not just 10-rounds. It was maybe 25+ rounds to really
notice that it was shooting poorly, I was thinking it was just poor
performance... and shot too many more, and never "thought" to
look for leading... This is how I learn!
5. I have some CLP. I put a 12" 'pipe cleaner' in the barrel
and let it "soak" an hour+, then repeated. no significant progress.
6. thanks for the 'Kroil' and LOBS. I'll go visit BassPro.
(Google:) mixing Kroil and ShootersChoice is often mentioned.

FYI: some time ago, I got a Fiber-Optic attachment at WalMart($7)
that attaches to my Mini-Mag-Lite-AA as a Bore-Inspection-Light.
The other day, I saw in their "FlashLight Dept", a "L-E-D" replacement
($5) with three-White-LEDs that replace the Wheat-Bulb & Reflector.
The improved light makes a BIG difference looking in the barrel.
It is a LOT cleaner/brighter "inspection light".
Both attachments (and many more) are by: http://www.NiteIze.com/

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:08 pm**

Sounds like you have a real problem.
I've never seen a barrel so leaded up that I couldn't get a brush and rod through it.
The Kroil is supposed to seep under any lead and make it easier to remove. Maybe your .17 cal. idea will clean it out enough to get a .22 rod and brush started.
Also, several passes with a really tight, dry patch on a strong cord after a good soaking with Kroil might pull enough lead out to get the brush and rod in.
One other thing to try is a Bore Snake. It has a brush in one end and you should be able to pull it through the barrel.

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2005 7:15 pm**

I think your problem was caused by the Remington ammunition. This is the third or fourth time, in the last year, that I have heard of leading in a .22 so serious that the bullets would tumble. The problem was always associated with the "R" word.

Be careful how you fix this. You have an excellent opportunity here to ruin your barrel Don't do anything harsh. A dental pick would definitely be considered harsh.

I don't know if they still sell them, but Outers used to make a thing called a "Four Out II". It used a metal rod, chemicals, and a power supply. You placed the barrel facing up. A rubber stopper was placed in the chamber. Then you filled the barrel with a toxic chemical. Then a rod was held in the center of the barrel by rubber "O" rings. The power supply was connected to the rod and gun. The process electroplated the rod with lead from the barrel. You ended up with a dirty rod and clean barrel.

wlambert

Posted: **Sun Sep 11, 2005 7:23 pm**

This is very unusual. Many Bullseye shooters (myself included) NEVER
clean the bore of a 22 pistol just the chamber and action. I have fired in excess of 30,000 rounds and no leading of the bore. Was the lube wiped off of the rounds in question? If you can think of anything out of the
ordinary let us know. Good luck removing the lead.

Posted: **Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:31 am**

Dave C. wrote:let us know.

I went to BassPro and they had "poor pickens" for solutions to this.
I went to Cabelas with a little more luck. I got a can of Kroil
and a small Shooter's Choice: Lead Remover.
Also a .17-cal rod/swab/BronzeBrush.

the foolish/ignorant thing was that I continued to fire MORE
ThunderBolts, after noticing the problem... I had a poor-opinion
of that ammo to begin with and did not question the extent of the
bad-patterns... and maybe shot 150 rounds total... then switched
to some Win:DynaPts (the initial Federals & these DynaPts are coated).
and put 50+ rounds that mis-behaved, too. So, then I realized
something was "amiss"... I just never questioned that the
ThunderBolts would have performed so bad.

This is my first consideration of 'Barrel Break-In'...
or some 'barrel coating/ waxing' to get and maintain a
base-surface on the barrel... experience / suggestions?

I've sent an eMail to S-W, since I was using common-ammo
and their U-manual says nothing about any BreakIn
or ammo-recommendations... I hope they'll accept the
problem as it seems most logically to be a barrel-problem.
I'll ask the guy that took (most) of the ThunderBolts how they
worked for him... again, I'm thankful it was THAT-pistol

Posted: **Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:30 am**

The ammo I got from Tubb's really helped my Marlin .22 rifle. It is a 100 round pack divided into 20 rounds each with the bullets coated with progressively finer grit and will help smooth out a barrel.
I used 5 each in my MK111512 but they were hard to chamber, had to single load them but they did make a difference that was seeable in the smoothness of the barrel.
My Hunter has a tighter chamber and I can't get even one of them to seat so thats out for the Hunter.
Might chamber ok and help your SW22.

http://www.davidtubb.com/ff_22.html

Posted: **Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:53 pm**

wlambert wrote:Be careful how you fix this. Outers used to make "Foul Out II".

http://www.GunAccessories.com/Outers/FoulOut.asp

the 'Foul Out-III' is a bit pricey, for my (thus far) One-Time
fix of an affordable-pistol... but nice to know that some of
'Mr Wizards' experiments have a real-world use.

The Tubb's bore-polishing-cartridges is an interesting "invention",
after I get the bulk of the lead out.

I did a little surfin' for "RimFire Barrel Break-In" and found mostly
"don't do nuthin" comments... but nothing definitive.

Thanks for the comments and experiences...
I will wait to hear from S-W and then try Remington,
before I begin to "destroy the evidence" for the sake of learning.

Posted: **Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:30 pm**

I have heard of others in rimfire and centerfires using those copper looking Chore Boy potscrubbers to clean leading. Kust wrap some around a jag and patch and run it through the bore. They say it works well. Have not leaded a barrel so I can only relate what I have heard. Good luck.

Posted: **Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:51 pm**

bearandoldman wrote:copper looking Chore Boy potscrubbers to clean leading. Just wrap some around a jag and patch and run it through the bore.

I have some "00" steel-wool, but I presume that's a bit harsh.
I'd thought of wrapping a jag with a little of it, not a TIGHT-fit,
but enough to do a little work...
I'll still wait to hear from S-W, then Rem, before I indulge.

Posted: **Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:07 pm**

toyfj40 wrote:
bearandoldman wrote:copper looking Chore Boy potscrubbers to clean leading. Just wrap some around a jag and patch and run it through the bore.
I have some "00" steel-wool, but I presume that's a bit harsh.
I'd thought of wrapping a jag with a little of it, not a TIGHT-fit,
but enough to do a little work...
I'll still wait to hear from S-W, then Rem, before I indulge.

They say that copper Chore boy works and a sfar as damaging the barrel it is a lot harder than steel wool, I use a stinlesss loop bruch called aTornado brush to clean shotgun barrels whrn the begin to geta builup from the plastic wads.

I have heard of leading in rimfire and especiall in centerfires usning cast lead bullets. One of the gun cleaning companies has a cloth tht will remove leading but can not remember the name.

Bullsye may know of this as he shoots a lot of centerfire pistol.

Posted: **Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:04 pm**

I believe Len is referring to Lewis Lead Remover. It's a specially made brass cloth patch that you run through the barrel on your cleaning rod like a regular cloth patch. There's a special attachment that screws onto the rod and holds the patch in place. Here's a picture of the Lewis set up. Brownells carries this product.

R,
Bullseye

Posted: **Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:10 pm**

Bullseye wrote:I believe Len is referring to Lewis Lead Remover. It's a specially made brass cloth patch that you run through the barrel on your cleaning rod like a regular cloth patch. There's a special attachment that screws onto the rod and holds the patch in place. Here's a picture of the Lewis set up. Brownells carries this product.

Thanks, new their was a product but did not have any idea of the name. Any good conventional pistol shooter that shoot cast wadcutters would know the product.
R,
Bullseye

Posted: **Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:30 pm**

Toyfj40,

Bullseye and bearandoldman are steering you right with the Lewis Lead Remover.
I used to use one all the time when I was shooting cast .38 wadcutters in PPC competition. I had just forgotten about it.
The smallest caliber they make is 9mm/.38 as far as I can find out so heres another thing you might try to get enough lead out to start working with a brush.
Get some screen door screening material, cut a patch that fits tightly by trial and error and pull it through the barrel with a loop in the end of a stout line like fishing monofiliment. That should do about the same thing as the Lewis LR.

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