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Hi Folks,

In regards to .22 hanguns, what is the idea (advantage?) to using sub-sonic ammo? I shot a box of it through my S&W, Model 617 last evening and really could detect much difference when compared to CCI, Standard Velocity. It seems like it (sub-sonic) was a lighter load, but I couldn't detect any advanage.

You comments please.......

Don

Generally the sub sonic is a slower speed bullet which equates to lighter recoil (less muzzle rise) than the high velocity .22RF rounds. Also when shooting suppressed, you don't have the bullet making a supersonic "crack" as it flies downrange. Sub sonic velocities aren't much slower than a standard velocity 22 round which is why you did not detect much of a difference between firing the two. Often the lower powered sub sonic cartridges fail to fully cycle the action in a semi-auto firearm because the recoil spring tensions are engineered for the higher velocity ammo.

R,
Bullseye

I am no expert on this subject but one of the signature advantages is that the round is sub-sonic... which means it is more quiet than other loads. This is often a valuable trait in some environments. Such as not alarming neighbors when you are practicing (safely) or clearing varmints on the farm / ranch.

Personally, I do not like sub-sonics at the range. If for no other reason than they sound pretty wimpy next to the guys shooting 45 ACP, .357 or even standard 9MM rounds.

I am sure others have compelling reasons for the use of subsonic .22 LR.

Actually subsonic is just over 1100 or so fps. CCI subs and Wolf MI and SK are I believe 1050fps. All the subs seem to shoot well in my 10/22's and other .22 caliber guns than the higher velocity stuff. My theory and it is mine alone is the high velocity projectile passes through the sonic barrier twice on the way to the target, and this may destabilize the projectile and have an effect on accuracy. The subsonic does not have to do this. Others opinions will most likely very.

Hi Gents,

Thanks for your replies. Up until this time I've not been able to get a reasonable explanation on this subject.

Anyone else?

Don

Understanding and choosing ammo seems to require a Ouija Board !

I have two .22LR Beretta Bobcats, which have an only partially deserved reputation for poor function. They have no extractor, depending only on the expanding gas from the cartridge going off to blow the empty out of the chamber. Sometimes the case stays in the chamber, or you get a stovepipe jam. Mine seem to do best with hypervelocity ammo. Most Bobcat owners on forums swear by Stingers, I use Velocitors, a little slower and heavier.

A few people however, think subsonic does best. Seems to me, having less power, they would be more likely to not eject? Or maybe the cartidge expands less and so would be less likely to stick?

My thought is the slide has to be back fully as the empty case ejects, a matter of timing. I can see where different velocities, and/or bullet weights, would affect that. I wish I understood more about this stuff myself !!!

Gatmandu wrote:Hi Folks,

In regards to .22 hanguns, what is the idea (advantage?) to using sub-sonic ammo? I shot a box of it through my S&W, Model 617 last evening and really could detect much difference when compared to CCI, Standard Velocity. It seems like it (sub-sonic) was a lighter load, but I couldn't detect any advanage.

You comments please.......

Don

What advantage were you looking for? Recoil differences would be minimal between SV and subsonics in a 617. Some .22's do better with slower, heavier ammo that faster and lighter. Generally mine shoot more consistently with SV than HV ammo. Could be as said that the velocity difference wasn't enough to make a difference.

greener wrote: What advantage were you looking for? Recoil differences would be minimal between SV and subsonics in a 617. Some .22's do better with slower, heavier ammo that faster and lighter. Generally mine shoot more consistently with SV than HV ammo. Could be as said that the velocity difference wasn't enough to make a difference.

Hi greener,

Thanks for the reply. As my signature states: "I know nothing". Just trying to learn.

You said "Some .22's do better with slower,heavier ammo". Could you please define "better" for me? Thanks in advance.

Don

Gatmandu wrote:

greener wrote: What advantage were you looking for? Recoil differences would be minimal between SV and subsonics in a 617. Some .22's do better with slower, heavier ammo that faster and lighter. Generally mine shoot more consistently with SV than HV ammo. Could be as said that the velocity difference wasn't enough to make a difference.

Hi greener,

Thanks for the reply. As my signature states: "I know nothing". Just trying to learn.

You said "Some .22's do better with slower,heavier ammo". Could you please define "better" for me? Thanks in advance.

Don

Typically my .22's with 5.5" barrels tend to shoot more consistently with 40gr SV ammo, resulting in better groups. The ammo preference is pretty noticeable in the 5.5" barrel of my 22A. The 6"-7" barrel pistols are not so sensitive to ammo, but tend to shoot better groups with 40gr SV ammo. So, better is tighter groups.

My P22 seems to cycle more reliably and shoots slightly tighter groups with 36gr HV ammo. So better is pistol function. My single six seems on some days to shoot a bit more accurately with 36gr HV ammo.

Supposedly the Kimber .22 conversion kit functions better (few ejection, load problems) with high velocity ammo than standard velocity ammo. I haven't seen that and get better groups with SV ammo.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, I thouhgt .22 rimfire muzzle velocities are subsonic.
Sebago

Sebago wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but, I thought .22 rimfire muzzle velocities are subsonic.
Sebago

Welcome to the forum. Most of the regularly used common ammo for the .22LR is high velocity, probably around 1235fps. The standard velocity ammo is about 1070, subsonic and a lot of the higher grade target ammo is 1080fps. the speed of sound at sea level at 68F if my memory is correct is about 1140?

Welcome to GunTalk-Online Sebago.

No, most 22 rimfire cartridges are supersonic. You can likely recall the "crack" sound of a rimfire bullet as it passes through the air as it's bullet is breaking the sound barrier.

R,
Bullseye

I've been trying out new ammo in my Savage Mark II, Ruger Mark III (5 1/2 bull barrel), and S&W Combat Masterpiece. In the Savage, the subsonic hits about 2" higher than my zero, and is not as accurate as CCI Mini-mags, but better than Blazer. Mini-mags tend to hit about 3/4 inch to the right. Blazer groups fairly well, but is about 1 1/2 high and left. Most accurate for me (so far) is Federal Gold Medal. All at 50 yards.

The Combat Masterpiece (from around 1956) does pretty good with the CCI Mini-mag and Blazer, but absolutely loves the sub-sonic. Pretty much puts them in the same hole at 25 yards. The Ruger doesn't care. It feeds everything I've ever tried (except Winchester T-22), is superbly accurate with anything, and is as reliable as a ball-pein hammer.

Two things surprised me: How sensitive the Savage is to different ammo, and how accurate the Ruger is with anything. The Ruger is more accurate than the Savage. I have a 4x Nikon on the Savage, and a Bushnell red-dot on the Ruger.

The best shot in our club told me to try the CCI Standard Velocity, as he's had good luck with it. Need to find some.

These are my results and preferences, your mileage may vary.

By the way, I retired from the Feds June 30, and plan to do a lot more "research" on this in the coming months. I'm really liking this retirement thing!

Oldguy wrote: By the way, I retired from the Feds June 30, and plan to do a lot more "research" on this in the coming months. I'm really liking this retirement thing!

You lucky dog! Congratulations!.....

I was under the impression that the velocities on the boxes of .22 lr where from longer barrels and when fired from shorter barrels the velocity would be slower. Thanks for the welcomes, I find this forum and Bullseye's detailed strip of the ruger very helpful for me and my MKIII hunter. does anybody know what the muzzle velocities of some of the common .22lr coming out of a 6.88" barrel?
Thanks Sebago