Trying too hard?

Curmudgeon · Post by **Curmudgeon** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:20 pm

After doing the VQ upgrade on my MkIII 22/45 i was enjoying some accurate shooting with the standard Ruger adjustable rear sight.

I was told the red dot was more accurate and bought one. I didn't like it because it was less accurate for me. Someone said I should get the fiber optic front sight and I sprung for a Hi-Viz front sight, Less accurate again in my opinion. I wish I would got a better rear sight for the money I have invested in stuff I don't want.

Comments?

Georgezilla · Post by **Georgezilla** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:04 am

What red-dot did you purchase? I have a UD match-dot and am pleased with it.

Usually I find Hi-Viz sights are too distracting. I did see one that didn't look too bad on a fellows CZ, it was very thin and had a darker glow than most.

The MKIII I use has the VQ TL rear sight on it. It is a high quality rear sight in my opinion. The only problem is the ruger front sight. I've tried 2 different factory front sights, neither of them are squared right. Ever since I ordered that second front sight the red-dot has been parked on the pistol. I hope that one day VQ makes a front sight (that isn't attached to a compensator).

greener · Post by **greener** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:01 am

Hi-Viz sights are easier for my old eyes to see than the standard sights. The only problem is that you shoot the Hi-Viz sight by putting the light pipe on the target, which will cover small X-rings. If you are a really good shooter, the standard sight is better because you know exactly where on the X-ring you are aiming. You can do very well with a Hi-Viz, but generally have a better chance of one-ragged-hole shooting with the standard sight (for those of us who can do that AND see the standard sight blade.)

I find almost any red dot sight better than a standard sight or a Hi-Viz. Much easier to see and I get better accuracy as long as the sight stays in adjustment (I have an NCStar sight that routinely goes out of adjustment shooting .22's). Red dots make it easier to see pistol wobble. There is a tendency to try to force the dot not to move with a result of having the dot move more. The other tendency with a red dot is to snatch the target as it comes by. Red dots are much better for my old eyes because I can see them and the target much better.

Red dots do have the nasty habit of showing shooter errors. I shot my 22A with a red dot yesterday. On the first two rounds the dot moved horizontally to the right as I fired. I had a little discussion with the pistol about trigger control and it did much better after that.

Post by **Bullseye** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:43 am

The "Dot" takes a little getting used to for most shooters. Once you get the hang of it the mechanics of sighting is greatly simplified and you can concentrate more on trigger squeeze. You just got to give it some more time.

R,
Bullseye

Curmudgeon · Post by **Curmudgeon** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:33 pm

I'm back, I drove the Bristol Motor Speedway with a car club. Fun...

I have a Simmons red dot. I'm trying to hit a 1 1/2 bull with a huge dot covering the entire bull. It's not for me. Setting the hit zone at the top of the red dot doesn't give me a clue as to the East/West alignment. I find trying to hold the spot at the top of the dot a WAG at best.

I'm off to the right or left further than my steel sight shooting.

The Hi-Viz is the same. We need smaller. I need a micro-precission adjustable rear sight and I now have the knowledge that I ain't missing anything.

I'm aiming to stay adjustable rear, stock front (with a little lighter soot) until they improve that stuff a lot.

Post by **Bullseye** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:38 pm

You definitely need a scope with a much smaller dot. I like the Ultradot UD30 with a single dot.

R,
Bullseye

Nosmo_King · Post by **Nosmo_King** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:50 pm

I just added a new MKIII 22/45 to keep my recently acquired MKII 22/45 company. Never had a .22 before and in two months, I now own two. These pistols make me look like a shooter (in my own eyes anyway).

I figured if the standard sights are good a red dot is better. Being cautious (cheap), I picked up a BSA on sale at Big5 last Sunday. I went to the range today with images of ragged holes in the x-ring. 100 pretty wild rds later, the red dot is in the bag and not on the pistol. I still don't have ragged x-ring holes but at least I have good groups that are close to the center.

Post by **Bullseye** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:00 pm

Welcome! Using a red dot takes some getting used to for good groups. Using a inexpensive dot scope, like the BSA, means having a large aiming dot and that typically translates to larger groups on a target. Later when you get comfortable, you can invest in a higher end dot scope like an Ultradot. You will definitely see a difference in the hits. Maybe someone down near you has one on their pistol you can try out.

R,
Bullseye

Jack D · Post by **Jack D** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:01 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:I'm back, I drove the Bristol Motor Speedway with a car club. Fun...

I have a Simmons red dot. I'm trying to hit a 1 1/2 bull with a huge dot covering the entire bull. It's not for me. Setting the hit zone at the top of the red dot doesn't give me a clue as to the East/West alignment. I find trying to hold the spot at the top of the dot a WAG at best.

I'm off to the right or left further than my steel sight shooting.

The Hi-Viz is the same. We need smaller. I need a micro-precission adjustable rear sight and I now have the knowledge that I ain't missing anything.

I'm aiming to stay adjustable rear, stock front (with a little lighter soot) until they improve that stuff a lot.

I have two red dots and I wouldn't trade them for any iron sight. Mainly because I can't see iron sights.......or actually I see too many iron sights.

You didn't say which model Simmons you have, but looking at the spec's., if it's a single reticle, it is probably a 4 moa dot. A 4 moa dot is slightly over 1" dia at 25 yards, slightly over 2" dia at 50 yards and gains slightly over an inch for each 25 yards beyond. At 100 yards it is 4.18" dia. This is true IF the spec's. are accurate. It seems many are not all that accurate. One of my red dots has a 3 moa dot and the other has a 4 moa dot (according to the published specs)...yet they look very different.

I posted a chart in the Misc. Forum showing the dots sizes (in inches) at ranges out to 100 yards. Something to consider when buying and using a red dot sight.
http://www.guntalk-online.com/forum/vie ... php?t=1583

Curmudgeon · Post by **Curmudgeon** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:54 pm

Well I ended up at the indoor range with a bunch of clowns, I guess I'm one too. Guess what I did?

The guy in the next lane had a very bright laser and it flashed around the room (down range that is) the ceiling, the floor and my target as well as many others. How in the hell am I supposed to concentrate with that thing flying in and out of my view like a soon to crash land butterfly?

Am I the last respectful shooter in the world? The guy on the other side was shooting at 3 yards with a canon (large caliber), and every time he hit the huge target, he'd yell, "Now that's what I'm talking about"

I got frustrated and played around with my Hi-Vis front sight and ended up putting it back on while the annoying people ran out of ammo. I couldn't believe how much better it was than I remembered. It was MUCH smaller and didn't hide my bull as I remember.

Later at home cleaning my gun, I realized that I put it on back-wards. (Go ahead laugh, I'm old) I was looking at the small end rather than the shouldered funnel end of the pipe.

I'm looking at turning at back around like it is supposed to be so people won't think I'm retarded, (I'd rather have them not sure) but I'd like to trim the shouldered end of the pipe down a good bit, and re-polish it. It really needs to be smaller.

Thoughts?

Curmudgeon · Post by **Curmudgeon** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:01 pm

Thanks Jack, I'm back with the Hi-Viz front ans stock adjustable rear now. I'll look up the specs.

blue68f100 · Post by **blue68f100** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:14 pm

Curmudgeon wrote: Later at home cleaning my gun, I realized that I put it on back-wards. (Go ahead laugh, I'm old) I was looking at the small end rather than the shouldered funnel end of the pipe.

I'm looking at turning at back around like it is supposed to be so people won't think I'm retarded, (I'd rather have them not sure) but I'd like to trim the shouldered end of the pipe down a good bit, and re-polish it. It really needs to be smaller.

Thoughts?

I think if you just sand the larger melted end off and install it normal it will be fine. I think this is just plastic and not the FO Glass. I was thinking of doing that with mine, but I have a 2x scope on it right now. Or if you have enough barrel length maybe turn the base around 180. I don't know if it would work or not. Bullseye may know if the base can be turned and fit, or just the mount on top of the post.

As far as nuts at the range, I've had my luck with them too. But I have found a time and day to go I miss them. Now it's mainly the same people (old men) all the time, a more friendly group.

Post by **Bullseye** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:43 pm

You get all kinds at the range. One just has to live with it,or join a private club. I rarely, if ever, go to public ranges anymore.

Did you like the smaller end of the light tube better?

R,
Bullseye

Downeaster · Post by **Downeaster** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:03 am

More-or-less on topic...

I have a cheapo BSA red dot on Henry VIII. While sighting in and test firing, I noticed something that may be useful, or may be my imagination.

I use targets with an orange dot in the X ring. At 25 yards, the dot in the scope covers the entire black, and maybe some of the 8 ring, so yes, the dot is way too big for precision aiming.

However...

A few shots into the session, I noticed something: I can see the orange dot on the target through the red dot on the scope. When properly centered, the red dot appears to create a halo around the orange dot, allowing sight alignment much in the manner of a peep sight. Does wonders for the group. Not as good as a really good optical scope, but way better than my tired old eyes can do with iron sights.

Has anyone else noticed this, or am I hallucinating?

Post by **Bullseye** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:14 am

I have not noticed being able to see through the dot. Sounds like your dot intensity is turned very low. If that was the case, then you may be able to see through it, because the aiming dot is just reflected on the front scope lens and is superimposed on the downrange image within the scope tube.

R,
Bullseye