I broke my new 22/45? hammer won't drop

greener · Post by **greener** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:11 pm

bearandoldman wrote:When you get it back from Ruger it will have all unmodified stock parts in it. I have 3 Mark II 22/45's and all I have done was add a pre travel screw to the trigger and a VQ sear, works fine as far as I can see. Others opinions may and most likely will vary.

Makes a great way to improve the pistol. I spent the megabucks and bought the VQ trigger.

Post by **Bullseye** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:47 pm

I agree that this would've been a great time for adding the VQ sear. Plus, I could've sent you a "take-off" factory sear, I have lots in the spare parts bin. You just caught me at a busy time and I didn't get to your post soon enough. Don't fret, everyone makes a little mistake sometime. To paraphrase what Greener said, at least you did learn how to tear the 22/45 down really well. Gotta go glass half-full on this one.

R,
Bullseye

OlMansRuger · Post by **OlMansRuger** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:58 am

You learned how to detail strip and assemble a Ruger. Most folks quake in terror at the idea of field stripping one. I learned to look closer at the sear picture and get one of my factory sears out for reference. Sorry I didn't do that.

I got to learn to look at something else when troubleshooting.

Being adventursome is a great way of learning. Most of the time the worst that can happen is a box of Ruger parts looking for a gunsmith or Arizona.

If we had hit the potential problem earlier, it would have been a great time to pitch replacing the factory sear with a VQ sear.

To paraphrase what Greener said, at least you did learn how to tear the 22/45 down really well. Gotta go glass half-full on this one.

certainly agree with both of you here. and fwiw, i'm not really beating myself up, but i DO feel lucky that i didn't fire the pistol. i'm thinking it may have been close to an auto with the little engagment the hammer had....

i also know we ALL have to start somewhere, and this won't stop me from tinkering. it has taught me a lesson about paying attention to the details and making sure i'm knowledgable about a process, and if i'm not ASK FIRST, then proceed (kinda like carpentry, measure twice....)

You learned how to detail strip and assemble a Ruger. Most folks quake in terror at the idea of field stripping one. I learned to look closer at the sear picture and get one of my factory sears out for reference. Sorry I didn't do that.

frankly, i'm amazed at how many people are "afraid" or complain about the field strip. really, if that's the one you should never do because it's so damn hard, most other pistols must be quite easy.

the detailed strip - yeah, i was very nervous the first time doing on this pistol (first pistol ever stripped). However, as mentioned before, the page here is a fantastic resource. it felt GREAT to get that baby stripped down to the trigger spring and know how to put her all back together.

If we had hit the potential problem earlier, it would have been a great time to pitch replacing the factory sear with a VQ sear.

for the sake of knowledge (since I won't get that one back) I'd like to hear more about that. I wondered if that was something I could do but wasn't sure. Would it amount to me removing the curve I'd put in and stone the whole "face", for lack of better words, to provide the required engagement?

You just caught me at a busy time and I didn't get to your post soon enough

awesome bullseye, wish i had a little more patience

Post by **Bullseye** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:37 am

When you put in that heavy break-away angle you changed the geometry of the hammer/sear engagement, there was no getting that back. The altered sear would have had a seriously negative engagement angle, meaning it could have slipped off the hammer hook with the slightest touch. Adding a VQ sear would lighten the trigger pull to around 2lbs and is as simple as removing the old factory one and replacing with the new sear. You cut enough of the sear face back that the hammer was actually on the verge of release with the safety on and the trigger depressed. A Ruger thumb safety actually allows some movement of the sear when set. The combination of the sear face shortened and the negative engagement angle caused the hammer to release immediately when the thumb safety hook was released. Stoning a hammer and sear is a much more detailed process than simply polishing. It takes the proper jigs, stones, stand-off pins to accomplish properly. If you stone one surface, you must thoroughly inspect the others to ensure proper engagement. Often this means slight alterations to the other surfaces to keep the proper alignment. This is one reason why I don't give any instructions on how to stone a hammer and sear - this is a detailed process that is not for a novice/tinkerer. There's no salvaging a bad cut, you replace the part with a new one and start over!

R,
Bullseye

OlMansRuger · Post by **OlMansRuger** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:07 am

Thanks for another very informative post.

before, i was ignorant of the facts. now i'd be a dummy to ignore them

The thing i'm still unclear about is how changing that geometry affected the hammer and MSH. when the trigger is pulled, the sear moves away from the hammer, which is pivoting on a pin. I don't understand how modifying the sear "pushed" the hammer back into the MSH, so it would bind it.

you're right about the "hair trigger". you could with a little effort push the hammer past the sear, without pulling the trigger. THAT seems very dangerous. a slight bump or fall and it would have certainly fired

This is worth repeating:
This is one reason why I don't give any instructions on how to stone a hammer and sear - this is a detailed process that is not for a novice/tinkerer. There's no salvaging a bad cut, you replace the part with a new one and start over!

Thanks again GTO for helping me understand what i should and shouldn't be messin' with...

Post by **Bullseye** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:54 pm

The thing i'm still unclear about is how changing that geometry affected the hammer and MSH. when the trigger is pulled, the sear moves away from the hammer, which is pivoting on a pin. I don't understand how modifying the sear "pushed" the hammer back into the MSH, so it would bind it.

It depends on what and how you made your cuts on the sear. I did not get to inspect this pistol, so I can only speculate on this situation. If you cut the sear top you can actually cause the hammer to have to move rearward before it releases off the hammer hook; kind of a slighter version of what happens with a double action revolver. If your hammer strut is already touching the groove in the mainspring housing it can jam under these circumstances. I know on some pistols when I manually cock the hammer back with my thumb, with the receiver off, the hammer sometimes jams rearward in the mainspring housing and I have to lift it up to get the hammer to release. This could have been the case with your pistol.

R,
Bullseye