My (1976) Model 41 has developed a situation where, after firing, the trigger will not return to a firing position for the next shot. Previously, I would try the trigger a couple of times and then it would catch and fire. Today, it just stopped functioning all together. Took it apart and studied the mechanism. It appears that the trigger bar is slipping around the sear tab and that this is caused by not enough tension from the spring that puts tension on the trigger bar.
To you folks more knowledgeable on the M 41 innards, would this be a correct diagnosis? Or should I be looking elsewhere? If it is the spring, can I get a replacement from S&W or an aftermarket supplier?
Thanks for any help.
Model 41 Trigger Problem
Moderators: Bullseye, Moderators
I'm sure you've already seen this photo on my M-41 maintenance page but I'll post it again:
There are a few ways this can happen. One is from the magazine disconnector lever. If it is not fully up, then it can knock the trigger bar off of the sear. The disconnector lever directly engages a pressed out dimple on the right side of the magazine. It is this dimple that lifts it up.
The disconnector bar has to be fully centered in the slide's disconnector notch. Any partial contact can throw off the timing of the trigger bar.
The hook on the back of the trigger bar is very small. If anyone attempts to stone the sear or the trigger bar hook trigger bar engagement issues can arise. A model 41 sear is highly susceptible to any change created by altering the hammer/sear engagement angles.
The trigger return spring can weaken if it was not heat treated properly. This is not a usual event but it can happen. If the spring is weak you should also notice a sluggish movement of the trigger as it returns forward. The spring serves a dual purpose; it returns the trigger fully forward and uplifts the trigger bar.
If you want to post some pictures of your pistol's trigger bar, left hand grip removed, with and without the magazine installed I can take a look and see if there's anything else going on with your pistol.
R,
Bullseye
There are a few ways this can happen. One is from the magazine disconnector lever. If it is not fully up, then it can knock the trigger bar off of the sear. The disconnector lever directly engages a pressed out dimple on the right side of the magazine. It is this dimple that lifts it up.
The disconnector bar has to be fully centered in the slide's disconnector notch. Any partial contact can throw off the timing of the trigger bar.
The hook on the back of the trigger bar is very small. If anyone attempts to stone the sear or the trigger bar hook trigger bar engagement issues can arise. A model 41 sear is highly susceptible to any change created by altering the hammer/sear engagement angles.
The trigger return spring can weaken if it was not heat treated properly. This is not a usual event but it can happen. If the spring is weak you should also notice a sluggish movement of the trigger as it returns forward. The spring serves a dual purpose; it returns the trigger fully forward and uplifts the trigger bar.
If you want to post some pictures of your pistol's trigger bar, left hand grip removed, with and without the magazine installed I can take a look and see if there's anything else going on with your pistol.
R,
Bullseye
Unfortunately, I cannot see as well as I had hoped in those photos. Does your digital camera have a "macro" setting? If it does, then that is what you need to take more detailed close up photos.
I can see a little. First, it looks like the trigger bar is not fully engaged on the sear tab. The top of the bar will almost align evenly with the top of the sear tab when fully engaged. Yours only appears to be half way. Secondly, the trigger return spring looks like it is doing what it's supposed to do but the sear end of the trigger bar cannot engage the tab properly. The disconnector slot is definitely aligned properly and isn't interfering with the trigger bar. The magazine disconnector lever is clearly high enough when engaged with the magazine to clear the trigger bar. It does appear in the photo that the thumb safety post may be slightly low. Is the trigger bar touching it? The thumb safety post is the round pin just to the right of the sear face and directly in between the sear and the magazine disconnector lever. From the photo it appears as if it is touching the trigger bar. If it is touching reach around the pistol and lift the thumb safety lever as high as possible and look again. Does the trigger bar now seem fully engaged? If it does then there's the problem. The little metal spring tab on the thumb safety may be loose or needs a little re bending to hold the thumb safety lever fully upward.
R,
Bullseye
I can see a little. First, it looks like the trigger bar is not fully engaged on the sear tab. The top of the bar will almost align evenly with the top of the sear tab when fully engaged. Yours only appears to be half way. Secondly, the trigger return spring looks like it is doing what it's supposed to do but the sear end of the trigger bar cannot engage the tab properly. The disconnector slot is definitely aligned properly and isn't interfering with the trigger bar. The magazine disconnector lever is clearly high enough when engaged with the magazine to clear the trigger bar. It does appear in the photo that the thumb safety post may be slightly low. Is the trigger bar touching it? The thumb safety post is the round pin just to the right of the sear face and directly in between the sear and the magazine disconnector lever. From the photo it appears as if it is touching the trigger bar. If it is touching reach around the pistol and lift the thumb safety lever as high as possible and look again. Does the trigger bar now seem fully engaged? If it does then there's the problem. The little metal spring tab on the thumb safety may be loose or needs a little re bending to hold the thumb safety lever fully upward.
R,
Bullseye
Hello Again:
This camera has the macro adjustment but when on just does not make any difference. Guess I need to find a camera forum. I did check out all the items you mentioned and they appear to be in place correctly. The only difference is from the spring bending I did. The weather here is too bad to go out and shoot but it is operating perfectly otherwise and I certainly have a better trigger return and sear engagement than I did before I bent the spring.
I'm not going to beat this horse any longer. The weather is supposed to be better soon and I can go to our outdoor range or I'll get fed-up and drive 200 miles to the nearest indoor range in Wichita, KS. If it works, it works. If not, out come the tools again.
Thanks for your patience and time.
Pete
This camera has the macro adjustment but when on just does not make any difference. Guess I need to find a camera forum. I did check out all the items you mentioned and they appear to be in place correctly. The only difference is from the spring bending I did. The weather here is too bad to go out and shoot but it is operating perfectly otherwise and I certainly have a better trigger return and sear engagement than I did before I bent the spring.
I'm not going to beat this horse any longer. The weather is supposed to be better soon and I can go to our outdoor range or I'll get fed-up and drive 200 miles to the nearest indoor range in Wichita, KS. If it works, it works. If not, out come the tools again.
Thanks for your patience and time.
Pete