Let me start off by introducing myself. My name is Jim and I have been watching this site and a few others like it for some time now.
In college I competed in Standard Pistol Competitions, but stopped after graduation. Now I am starting to get back into the sport and am looking for all the information I can find.
I have a question regarding Mark III's and what you would modify if you were using it for competition. I recently purchased a new Mark III and I am not sure if I should or even need to do anything to make it a true match grade weapon. I will be using the weapon in NRA Competitions as well as Interservice matches.
Any help will be gratefully appreciated. I will be picking up my .45 soon and will need the same help then as well I'm sure.
Thanks
Jim
Mark III for Competition Use
Moderators: Bullseye, Moderators
Mark III for Competition Use
ACTA NON VERBA
Welcome Jim! From your comments it sounds like you want to get into NRA Conventional Pistol. This is the type of competition shot as Bullseye events at places like Camp Perry and the Interservice matches. If you haven't already checked out this site then you should also give it a look. http://www.bullseyepistol.com/ There is also a section on that website with the "Official NRA Bullseye Pistol Rulebook" which is always a good read. If your new to Bullseye shooting, then the "USAMU Pistol Guide" is a great beginning instructional book for practicing the craft. Here's a direct link to the USAMU's Website http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/amu/
For your new Ruger, you'll want to smooth and lighten up your trigger. Two pounds is the limit for rimfire pistols. A Volquartsen Mark II Target Sear is a must have. You can get a new trigger, either the new VQ Mark III or a Marvel, that has a pretravel adjustment to take up that extra trigger travel. You can choose to shoot with optical sights, like red dots, or traditional crosshair scopes. Your Mark III will already come with pre-drilled and a Weaver style scope mount. All you'll want to do is pick out the type of scope you desire for the pistol and mount it on, no gunsmithing needed for this anymore. You can also choose different types of grips for your pistol if the factory ones don't suit you. There's not really much else, these pistols will shoot very good right out of the box, so just take it out and start practicing.
Hope this helps and Welcome to Guntalk-Online!
R,
Bullseye
For your new Ruger, you'll want to smooth and lighten up your trigger. Two pounds is the limit for rimfire pistols. A Volquartsen Mark II Target Sear is a must have. You can get a new trigger, either the new VQ Mark III or a Marvel, that has a pretravel adjustment to take up that extra trigger travel. You can choose to shoot with optical sights, like red dots, or traditional crosshair scopes. Your Mark III will already come with pre-drilled and a Weaver style scope mount. All you'll want to do is pick out the type of scope you desire for the pistol and mount it on, no gunsmithing needed for this anymore. You can also choose different types of grips for your pistol if the factory ones don't suit you. There's not really much else, these pistols will shoot very good right out of the box, so just take it out and start practicing.
Hope this helps and Welcome to Guntalk-Online!
R,
Bullseye
Last edited by Bullseye on Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don't find the entire trigger upgrade kit a necessity. Just replacing the sear and the trigger are more than enough to get a quality trigger pull for around half the price of the kit. There are a lot of redundant parts included in the trigger upgrade kit.
I guess the first question is what model and length of barrel did you choose for your Mark III? (5.5" bull barrel, 6.9" bull barrel, 6" taper barrel?)
Rimfire pistols have a very low recoil and adding a compensator does not really dampen the felt effect of the cartridge. The compensator does change the balance of the pistol by shifting weight forward towards the muzzle. This can be significant change if one also considers adding a optical sight, which also changes the balance and adds weight to the pistol.
I'm not a fan of compensators for the 22 rimfire pistol. Compensators are a pain to clean. There's just no way around that, the 22 rimfire cartridge is a dirty round and leaves behind a lot of fouling. This is probably the biggest detractor to adding a compensator. There's a lot of leading and powder residue and very little room to get in and really clean it out of the compensator.
Hope this helps.
R,
Bullseye
I guess the first question is what model and length of barrel did you choose for your Mark III? (5.5" bull barrel, 6.9" bull barrel, 6" taper barrel?)
Rimfire pistols have a very low recoil and adding a compensator does not really dampen the felt effect of the cartridge. The compensator does change the balance of the pistol by shifting weight forward towards the muzzle. This can be significant change if one also considers adding a optical sight, which also changes the balance and adds weight to the pistol.
I'm not a fan of compensators for the 22 rimfire pistol. Compensators are a pain to clean. There's just no way around that, the 22 rimfire cartridge is a dirty round and leaves behind a lot of fouling. This is probably the biggest detractor to adding a compensator. There's a lot of leading and powder residue and very little room to get in and really clean it out of the compensator.
Hope this helps.
R,
Bullseye
Bullseye, you recommended switching the MKIII sear and trigger to a Volquartsen Mark II Target Sear and a new trigger, either the new VQ Mark III or a Marvel, that has a pretravel adjustment to take up that extra trigger travel.
Did you mean a VQ MKIII target sear or MKII? I assume if you meant a MKII sear it will work without any mods in the MKIII?
Thanks,
Jim
Did you mean a VQ MKIII target sear or MKII? I assume if you meant a MKII sear it will work without any mods in the MKIII?
Thanks,
Jim
Jim,
Your assumption is correct, the aftermarket VQ Target Sears are the same for all the Ruger Mark models. That means the sears will fit in all Ruger .22 autos, Std, Mk1, Mk2, Mk3, and all variants of the 22/45. I only stated the VQ MKII target sears because most retail websales sites have not updated the interchangeability of their products for the Mark III and this lack of model specificity often confuses potential buyers.
Here is a link to what I consider the best buy/deal on the Internet today. Rimfire Sports & Custom VQ Sear
Hope this helps.
R,
Bullseye
Your assumption is correct, the aftermarket VQ Target Sears are the same for all the Ruger Mark models. That means the sears will fit in all Ruger .22 autos, Std, Mk1, Mk2, Mk3, and all variants of the 22/45. I only stated the VQ MKII target sears because most retail websales sites have not updated the interchangeability of their products for the Mark III and this lack of model specificity often confuses potential buyers.
Here is a link to what I consider the best buy/deal on the Internet today. Rimfire Sports & Custom VQ Sear
Hope this helps.
R,
Bullseye
-
greener
Bullseye: I noticed on the link you gave for Rimfire Sports had several competition models with added heat disappation. It got me to thinking about how much hotter my Mark III feels than my 22A after about the same number of rounds at about the same rate of fire. When I noticed it, I put it down as just the difference in materials of construction with different heat capacities. Does the barrel heat make that much of a difference for us plinkers who are never going to be at any serious level of competition?
No barrel heating in pistols is not really a concern for accuracy. Pistol ranges are relatively short and any possible distortion caused by barrel heating would have a minimal effect. The barrel would have to be so hot that you could not touch it without burning your skin.
A heated pistol barrel could have one small effect on accuracy, and that is radiating heat rising up from the barrel could distort the sight picture a little. This is like watching the heat waves rise off of a paved road on a hot sunny day. This "mirage" effect in a pistol is minimal due to the relatively short length of a pistol's barrel.
Target rifles suffer this effect to a far greater degree, due to the longer length of a rifle's barrel plus the increased ranges that the rifle shoots. Many target rifles have a mirage band that can be installed between the front and rear sights to deflect these heat waves around the sight picture. Here's a picture of a mirage band.
And here's one installed on a rifle.
Hope this helps.
R,
Bullseye
A heated pistol barrel could have one small effect on accuracy, and that is radiating heat rising up from the barrel could distort the sight picture a little. This is like watching the heat waves rise off of a paved road on a hot sunny day. This "mirage" effect in a pistol is minimal due to the relatively short length of a pistol's barrel.
Target rifles suffer this effect to a far greater degree, due to the longer length of a rifle's barrel plus the increased ranges that the rifle shoots. Many target rifles have a mirage band that can be installed between the front and rear sights to deflect these heat waves around the sight picture. Here's a picture of a mirage band.
And here's one installed on a rifle.
Hope this helps.
R,
Bullseye
-
greener
Heating up the powder charge in the cartridge would only change the pressures inconsitently if the successive rounds were not shot in the same time intervals. Letting individual rounds sit in the chamber and heating for longer or shorter time lengths could increase the bullet hit spread, but this spread is again relatively small in the distances that a pistol is normally fired. Changes would be in the order of one or two MOA and at 25 yards, that's only 1/4 to 1/2 inch. Unless you're trying to put shot hole on top of shot hole, like Seal Killer does, than this effect is negligible.
R,
Bullseye
R,
Bullseye
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greener
Well, my intent every time I aim at the target is to put hole on top of shot hole at 25 yards, so I'll keep that in mind if I ever get down to one big ragged hole. I did notice that my Ruger was hotter than my 22A. If you were going to improve the accuracy of a Ruger Mark III, what is the order of improvements you would recommend. (other than upgrade of the M1 carrier, pistol, target locating and fire control)
If you have a stock Ruger, then I'd first install a VQ sear and add a target trigger that has a pretravel and overtravel screw installed in it. The sear and trigger will reduce the pull wieght and crisp up the let off. Later I'd look at an optical sighting system (like an Ultradot or other red dot style sight.) If over time you find any extraction issues, then installing a VQ Exact Edge extractor will usually clear them up.
The Ruger 22 Auto pistol a solid shooting system, just cleaning up the mechanics, like the trigger, will go a long way to improve the operability and accuracy of the pistol.
Experiment with different ammo brands to find which one shoots the best in your pistol. Every pistol has a diet of ammo that it prefers and this can vary from individual pistol to individual pistol even within a model.
Hope this helps.
R,
Bullseye
The Ruger 22 Auto pistol a solid shooting system, just cleaning up the mechanics, like the trigger, will go a long way to improve the operability and accuracy of the pistol.
Experiment with different ammo brands to find which one shoots the best in your pistol. Every pistol has a diet of ammo that it prefers and this can vary from individual pistol to individual pistol even within a model.
Hope this helps.
R,
Bullseye
-
greener
Bullseye: Thanks for the advice. Will put the trigger and sear on my "to do after the college tuition check" list. I've got a BSA red dot that I use on my 22A. I tightens up the groups as long as I pay attention to shooting mechanics. The red dot makes up for a lot of vision problems us this codger has. Haven't tried it on the Ruger, I'm still learning to use the fiber optic sights.
Greener,
I hear you on that tuition check. Colleges should just grab you by the ankles and shake, instead all the ways they invent to wrangle money out of the student body. Fortunately those trigger parts are fairly inexpensive and you'll find they'll give a tremendous return on your investment.
R,
Bullseye
I hear you on that tuition check. Colleges should just grab you by the ankles and shake, instead all the ways they invent to wrangle money out of the student body. Fortunately those trigger parts are fairly inexpensive and you'll find they'll give a tremendous return on your investment.
R,
Bullseye
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greener