Does someone like old military bullet rifles?

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jayman
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Does someone like old military bullet rifles?

Post by jayman » Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:34 pm

Hi,
here in Germany an old discipline is still in demand.

It´s called "Ordonanz" what means ordinance.

The rifles must be absolute original.
Not the sight or the trigger or anything else can be changed.

Trigger wheight must be 1.500gr. minimal (roundabout 3 pounds).
Distances are 100m (ra. 110 yards) and 300m (330 yards).

The rifle must be adopted in the military of any country before 1945.

After shooting a lot of them, I choosed the Swiss G11.
G means "Gewehr" for rifle and 11 is the year of adopting, so that was 1911.

Does anybody now this "wonder of precision"?
Someone here who shoots such a kind of old stuff?

Greets;
J.

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Post by Bullseye » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:53 pm

We have a similar type of match here called highpower "Service Rifle." These have to be US service rifles and cannot have modifications altering the exterior of the rifle from an "As issued" condition. The rules do allow for some internal modifications to the trigger and others to increase the stock-to-receiver fit in the way of fiberglass bedding or by adding lugs to tighten the fit. Usually these matches are run over known distances of 200 yards (182.88m), 300 yards (274.32m), and 600 yards (548.64m). Each distance has a different position of shooting associated with it. For example at 200 yards (182.88m), the shooter must stand and shoot the rifle off-hand for a number of shots. Also at 200, the shooter will shoot a sustained fire string from the sitting position with a reload within the string while in position. The longer distances have the shooter firing from the prone position. At 300 yards (274.32m) the shooter fires sustained string with a reload in position. At 600 yards (548.64m) the shooter fires slow fire, one round at a time, at the target from the prone position.

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Post by jayman » Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:46 am

I see, sounds interresting for me.

In lack of space and such big ranges in Germany, there are only less ranges where you can shoot the 300m - Distances.
The ranges where you can go over 300m are less then five I think in the whole country.

The positions are different, addicted to the association where you are member.

In the biggest association, the DSB, it´s 30 rounds in 45 minutes in the prone position.
For those ol´ladys who are not covered on the upper side of the barrel, this is a real "heat problem".
So for example for the whole Mauser - familiy like the swedish M96 or the german K98.
After about 15 shots the barrels get hot and the air over it begins to flicker. You get problems to fix the target over your sight.
Some try to cool the barrel down with ice-spray. Others have a big watch in front of them, counting the seconds. :roll:
This was one of the reasons, why I took a G11, with a covered barrel in the front.

In another association, the BDS, you have to make 10 rounds in the standing position and 10 in prone position.

But equal on which rules you go on competition, it´s always big fun with this old "bang latches".

They stink, they smoke, makin´a big noise and they kick like a mule.

I can´t get enough from it!


J. 8)

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Post by Bullseye » Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:38 am

I have to agree they are fun.

I had almost forgotten about how the barrel's heat waves can affect the sights. I see this quite a bit with my bolt (Palma) rifle. When I shoot it in other matches I can use a barrel shade. The shade is a long piece of material stretched between the sights and it is designed to deflect the heat waves around the sight's field of view.

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Post by jayman » Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:07 am

Yep, know that stuff.

That´s often used here in the match or bench rest scene too.

But no way for "Ordonanz".
It´s not original.
Like the ice spray, you know?

8)

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Post by ruger22 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:32 pm

My older brother was at one time a serious shooting enthusiast, and he had several models of military Mausers he really enjoyed. We're not in touch much these days, so I don't know how much shooting he does now.
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Post by jayman » Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:10 pm

Well,
the Mausers, especially the K98 and some G98, have been widely spread in Germany in the past.

"A German shootist has to have German guns..."

I´m sure you know what I mean. :roll:

Well, the K98 was produced in a quantity of billions up to the end of WW II.
But to tell the truth, the accuracy has never been the best.
Bulk was the primary thing, not quality.

Nowadays only the older shootist still swear on their K98.
But so they don´t have a minimize chance in competition.

On the highest places are the Swedish Mauser (very high production quality, better steel) and the Swiss Rifles, from time to time an englisch Enfield.

But one thing is the greatest with the K98, and that´s the recoil.
A military bullet 8x57IS and the low weapon weight shows you your master. :D
No wonder is the caliber developed for a shooting distance of 4.000m!!!
(Roundabout 4.400yards)

Regards,
J.

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Post by perazzi » Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:43 pm

Hmmmmm, surprising how similar the Mauser 98 and Springfields 1903's are..

You don't suppose............. :wink:
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Post by charlesb » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:06 pm

I have a nice 1896 model Swedish Mauser that my family and I enjoy shooting. It has little recoil and is much more accurate than any of us expected it to be.

The rifle appears to be collectible as all numbers match, it has good wood and it is in excellent condition. It was manufactured in 1909.

My daughter's first three shots out of a high powered rifle were fired from this Swedish Mauser, and she put those three rounds into 1" at 100 yards. I framed that target under glass for her to hang up in her room.

I wish I had another one that was not collectible, that I could sporterize and use for hunting. I like the cartridge quite a bit, but the gun is a bit too long and heavy for me to haul around on a hunt.

I refuse to hack up a collectible military rifle, though. - I'll keep an eye out for one that's not quite right.

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Post by blue68f100 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:27 pm

Charlesb, Welcome to GunTalk-OnLine
David

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Post by Bullseye » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:00 am

Welcome Charles!

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Post by Pete D. » Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:03 am

, surprising how similar the Mauser 98 and Springfields 1903's are..
Didn't Springfield have to settle a patent infringement suit with Paul Mauser over some of the design similarities?
One of the most accurate rifles that I ever owned was a target rifle - a Mauser - made over by an outfit called Golden State Arms to chamber .30-06. It had a tight chamber and a Redfield International aperture rear. I shot my first sub-moa group with that rifle. Sold it to a friend when I moved to the AR.
Pete
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Post by jayman » Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:54 am

charlesb wrote:I have a nice 1896 model Swedish Mauser that my family and I enjoy shooting. It has little recoil and is much more accurate than any of us expected it to be.

....

Hi Charles,
and from one Newbie to the other - welcome in!

Like i wrote,
the Swedish M96 and the Swiss G11 are the accuratest Ordincance-Rifles of the older generation.

Some of the sport shootist in Germany are smiling about the 6,5x55, calling it a small bore.
It´s right, the recoil is very smooth, but they stop laughing when they see the results, believe me.

In my opinion the 6,5x55 is a genious concept, pre-dated a hundred years or so.
While other armys in Europe still used a big bore an heavy weight caliber, the Swedish chose a slim light weighted one.
And it reached anhow over 2.000m or more!

So, who should be laughing and who shouldn´t?

Nowadays the M96 is the expensivest old military rifle in Europe.

Be glad you own one.

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Post by charlesb » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:44 pm

Thanks to everyone for the kind words of welcome.

Today the Swedish Mauser is the only classic military rifle I own, but about twenty-five years ago I had a fairly good collection of them going. One of my favorites was the 1917 Enfield chambered in 30-06, and I had a Chilean Mauser that I was very fond of. It was in especially good condition and the workmanship there was outstanding.

In addition to those, I have owned Swiss, German, US, Austrian, English, Italian and Japanese military rifles at different times. I made it a point to regularly shoot them all but truth be told, I got just as much enjoyment from looking them over, taking care of them and researching their history.

I once was caught with no sporting rifle and pressed a Springfield A3-03 into service as a deer rifle. I bagged a nice little eight-point buck with it, and later on gave the rifle to an elderly neighbor who had carried one just like it in WWII. He told me many really interesting stories about his service over the years, and his wife was a great cook so I got a lot more out of the deal than it may sound like.

I have an AR-15 today but I do not consider it to be a military rifle as it is semi-automatic only. I live on a farm, and the AR-15 is paired up with a Savage .17 HMR rifle for pest and varmint control. Anything too big for the .17 gets a .223 instead. Those two rifles are tools, they are always loaded and they hardly ever get shot unless there is a varmint or critter to deal with.

It would be nice to collect military rifles again, but I am currently starting up a new business, and new businesses are basically a very expensive hobby for the first few years. That's where just about all of my cash goes these days.

I have a rifle due to be delivered from the Savage custom shop soon, financed by selling two other rifles and a handgun. That will probably be my last new firearm purchase for several months. I have held back enough to purchase a beater Swedish Mauser if one shows up at the local gun shops. When I find one I like, I'll use it to educate my son in basic gunsmithing skills, and he'll end up with a nice little deer and hog rifle.

CharlesB

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Post by blue68f100 » Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:09 am

My dad brought back a German Mauser back from WWII that my brother use to shoot. My dad cut the banonet off and the mount it fastened too many many many years ago (40+). Every time he gets broken into he looses his gun and most all of the time they find them and get them back. I offered to keep the guns in my safe since the last time they destroyed an antique SxS shotgun. They cut the barrel off and stock so it could be concealed. This gun was suppose to go to my brother. So the mauser is in my safe and that was the last time I looked at it. This gun I have not decided what to do with it, for I do not need another deer rifle.

I will have to pull it out to see what markings are on it. All of this talk has tweaked my currosity.
David

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