How many reloads out of .45ACP brass?

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Georgezilla
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How many reloads out of .45ACP brass?

Post by Georgezilla » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:34 pm

I know there are many variables that dictate how many reloads one .45ACP case can withstand before failure, but are there any general rules concerning how many times a .45ACP case may be safely reloaded?

My question is mostly involving brass which has only been loaded as pet rounds (around 4 grains of powder).

Thanks.

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Post by blue68f100 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:08 pm

Generally speaking on straight wall brass, 20+ times depending on mfg. The primer pocket will normally get loose before the brass actually cracks, or you loose them first. I shoot them till the primer pocket is too loose to hold the primer before I discard them. I have some 9mm close to the 15 mark now. The mil brass will start splitting as early as 4-5 reloads, one of the main reason I sort by head stamp.

I hope this helps. But it's all about how hard or soft the brass is.
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Post by Georgezilla » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:31 pm

Thanks a lot, Blue! I am glad I asked, I thought that it was pushing the envelope using the same cartridge 3 times.

That is interesting that the primer pocket is the first thing that usually fails on straight wall cartridges. I would have figured that the case mouth would go first seeing as it gets belled and crimped. Now that I think about it though, it does take a lot of force to put install/remove primers, so it makes sense that they would get baggy/fail first.

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Post by Bullseye » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:06 pm

I reload them many more than that. Watch for signs of stress cracking near the case mouth or primer pockets and you should be fine with nominal pressure loads. .45 cases are very durable but I wouldn't say the same for 9mm cases which wear much faster due to the higher cup pressures compared to case wall thickness.

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Post by stork » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:23 pm

I started shooting BE 11 years ago with 500 rounds of used brass. I have no idea how many times they were loaded before I got them and no idea how many times I've reloaded them since. Best guess somewhere between 25-50 times. I load them until the neck splits then crush them and put them into the brass waste bucket.

Now I have around 8-10 gallons of brass and just load those for short line. (3.5 clays, WLP, and an H&G 130. Nothing gets overused now due to the larger quantities.

I usually keep my Remington brass separate because of the thinner case and because they shoot extremely well with the Rem 185 SWC. Those get used for State, Sectionals, and Camp Perry.

Someday I may just load one round over & over to see what the failure rate would be with that case, but I'm not that interested yet. I have plenty for my own use and enough to donate 500-1000 or so to new BE shooters (I just ladel a few handsfull into a bag) if they really get into BE I'll give them more. No point in them buying brass when I can supply some without missing it.

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Post by Georgezilla » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:37 pm

Thanks for the replies.

Since we are on the subject, I know that it is important to sort by head stamp, but in addition do any of you who shoot bullseye (or who look for high accuracy) bother sorting your brass according to the number of times it has been used?

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Post by stork » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:45 pm

The only time I sort by headstamp is for important matches, and then only for the 50 yard line. More for personal confidence than anything. Keeping track by times fired never comes into the equation. The only guns I do that for is my bench rest guns and long range varmint rifles.

I've done enough testing in the Ransom Rest to know that at 50' and 25 yards it makes no difference whatsoever. At 50 yards it makes about 1/2" difference, and that may be only because I am very very picky about the bullets I shoot at the long line.

Depending on how long it takes my shoulder to get back to where it should be, I may just shoot anything at all just for trigger time. Last night I tried my first 5 rounds with my right arm with my MKII. What a fiasco. 0-6-6-7-8-9. Then I tried it with my left hand, 10-9-9-7-7. Still not worth a darn, but a lot better than I've been shooting LH. With either one I'm shaking like a leaf. Oh well back to physical therapy, there's a match in 2 weeks.
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Post by greener » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:36 pm

Good luck with the PT. Sounds like you are coming along.

I'm pretty much a plugger when it comes to high accuracy reloading, but it seems that bullet consistency and powder consistency would be more important than the brass. I could see the brass being more important if I were trying for X's at 600 yards, but the relative inaccuracy innate to pistols doesn't seem to be as important.

I've had a couple of .45 ACP brass to give me problems. I don't track how many times the brass is reloaded and probably lose 5% and replace them with other range brass. I don't think I shoot hot enough loads to damage the brass much.

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Post by Georgezilla » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:47 pm

The reason I ask about sorting based on the number of times a case has been used is because of an article I read about head stamp sorting.

Among other reasons, the article noted two reasons that seem sort of related to the number of a times a case has been used. One reason was because different makes of cases have different OAL. The second was because different makes of cases also vary in case wall thickness. These two variables change the pressure at which the bullet is released from the case thus causing some extra inconsistencies on ones groups down range.

From that information I figured that the level of the cases metal fatigue could also effect the pressure at which the bullet is released from the case (i.e., perhaps the more times a case is used, the less time the case holds the pressure when the round is fired).

Though even if the number of times a case is used does influence the pressure, I doubt it has anywhere near the effect that OAL or wall thickness does.

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Post by Bullseye » Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:47 pm

All good questions George. Although as far as I've seen there just isn't as much impact as one would think with .45ACP brass of different head stamps and the number of times the cases are reloaded. As you mentioned there are numerous manufacturers and to try and place a definitive, all encompassing, number to reloading this cartridge is not practical. The greatest variance is out to the long line (50 yards) and there aren't very many folks who shoot that distance regularly.

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Post by greener » Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:11 pm

Variations in OAL would be more likely to create pressure/mv variations. You can control that by trimming the cases to consistent lengths. I'm not sure point triple oh nothing variations in case thickness would have significant affect on the case volume. Especially for a handgun. However, if I were really into competition shooting, I'd be making everything as consistent as I could.

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Post by blue68f100 » Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:17 pm

Georgezilla,

As the case work hardens it will hold the bullet tighter due to a higher yield point. So pressures will/may slightly increase. I think you will get a greater deviation between a thin wall (Rem) vs a heavier wall brass like Fed or WW. Rem with it's thinner wall will give you a lighter bullet grip. This is why most re-loaders separate the Rem out and load them separately. I do not think you will see any difference actually shooting with the work hardened brass. Powder dispensers causes the greatest deviation. Unless you take the time and hand weight each load with some super high accurate scales, separate bullets by weight, volume check brass, sort by wall thickness and sort by weight. You will need to crono them for a base line. Then load them on your AP press and crono them. You will see a little higher deviation. What this all means, A lot of effort for maybe a 1/32 - 1/4" reduced group size at 25yrds.

Most find that just shooting a higher grade jacketed bullet (like Hornady XTP) will yield a tighter grouping.
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Post by Georgezilla » Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:24 pm

Thanks for correcting me, David. When I was writing that post I wasn't sure if brass work hardened at normal ambient temps or not, so for example's sake I decided to say it didn't.

A lot of BE shooters do separate their bullets by weight, but I agree that much past that is more time than it is probably worth.

Thank you all for the great posts and bearing with all of my questions. A lot of times I have the urge to learn about things just for knowledge sake -- even if there is no practical application.

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Post by blue68f100 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:26 am

I try to reload ammo that is accurate in my guns. Some times it's a compromise due to 2 guns same caliber. If your shooting rifle loads (bottle neck brass) there are a lot of thing to check to get the most accurate ammo. Shooting out of a 4" barrel pistol makes it very tough to have perfect shots 100% of the time. The reason I set my goals low, these aging eyes can not see iron sights. If you have a Ransom Rest you could change a few variables and see it the groups tighten up. I found out with my BHP It liked 1 specific length to shrink the group to 1/2. So I start off with a load and increase the length in 0.010" inc up to max length. If I don't hit it I increase the charge by 0.1 gr and go again. Some times you hit some time you don't and you need to move to a different powder. The key is only change 1 variable at a time.

To me this is the reason I reload. Most accurate ammo and less than 1/2 the cost.
David

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