If they are being fired out of match-grade 1911, can anyone tell me what the advantages and disadvantages to swaged lead bullets and moly-koted lead bullets?
For the moly-koted bullets, from what I understand it is a silicone coating around the lead bullet. I understand the many advantages that of bullets that are lubed well without the use of wax. The disadvantage to moly-koted bullets seems to be that the moly-kote is nearly as hard as copper, so wouldn't moly-koted bullets impart more wear on a 1911 barrel than swaged bullets lubed with wax?
For the swaged bullets, I understand that the main advantage to these is that they are highly consistent. I understand that the main disadvantage to swaged bullets is that in order to be forced in the dies, the lead is very soft. I read that the soft metal means a lot of leading in barrels.
Thus far, this is my understanding of the two types of bullets. I was just wanting to check if my understanding of them was correct, and to see if you guys could add any info to my knowledge base on the two types of bullets.
Thanks.
Swaged bullets and moly-koted bullets
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Georgezilla
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I'll address Moly coated bullets and leave the swaged bullets to some of the other experts out there who actually make their own lead bullets and swage them.
Moly coating was a big rage 7-10 years ago. Some folks still use the process but a lot of folks have given it up. I personally do not use moly coating on my bullets. While molybendum can prolong the life of a barrel by reducing friction it can also add to shorter barrel life through corrosion if not maintained properly. That being said, moly use means a lot more maintenance to preserve a barrel from corrosion, especially if one lives in a high humidity area. Moly turns into a corrosive acid when exposed to moisture. Every time someone shoots moly coated bullets some of the lubricant stays behind and coats the barrel, this process of plating is what makes moly lubricant work. However, prolonged moly use can cause buildup in spots called "caking" and can create rings in a barrel if not properly maintained. Molybendum lubricant is not easy to clean out of a barrel and requires vigorous scrubbing to remove. If left behind it will cause corrosion when moisture vapor in the air finds it. To me all the extra maintenance time invested for moly lubricant use is not worth the limited benefits over shooting quality copper jacketed bullets and performing regular barrel maintenance.
R,
Bullseye
Moly coating was a big rage 7-10 years ago. Some folks still use the process but a lot of folks have given it up. I personally do not use moly coating on my bullets. While molybendum can prolong the life of a barrel by reducing friction it can also add to shorter barrel life through corrosion if not maintained properly. That being said, moly use means a lot more maintenance to preserve a barrel from corrosion, especially if one lives in a high humidity area. Moly turns into a corrosive acid when exposed to moisture. Every time someone shoots moly coated bullets some of the lubricant stays behind and coats the barrel, this process of plating is what makes moly lubricant work. However, prolonged moly use can cause buildup in spots called "caking" and can create rings in a barrel if not properly maintained. Molybendum lubricant is not easy to clean out of a barrel and requires vigorous scrubbing to remove. If left behind it will cause corrosion when moisture vapor in the air finds it. To me all the extra maintenance time invested for moly lubricant use is not worth the limited benefits over shooting quality copper jacketed bullets and performing regular barrel maintenance.
R,
Bullseye
Swaged bullets
while I have never used swaged bullets myself, there was and is considerable bandwidth on the Bullseye List over the years regarding their use in Bullseye shooting. I prefer to use bullets I cast myself with very similar results.
They are very highly regarded as an accurate bullet. Especially the (now out of business) Star 185 and 200 hollow point semi wadcutter with the match lube. They would repeatedly hold within 1 1/2" at 50 yards out of a well built Bullseye pistol. In fact the go to load was 3.8gr Clays with the 185 or 200 gr HPSWC. If your pistol didn't shoot with that, it probably wouldn't with anything.
The swaged bullets would obturate very well and seal the bore because of their soft nature. They were excellent for the velocities that most Bullseye loads are traveling (650-750 fps) and exhibited minimal to no leading.
From what I gather, Precision Delta has taken up the swaging process for Bullseye shooters and 200 gr swaged bullets are now available from them. One supplier of excellent repute is Neil Kravitz of nsk sales. He is an avid bullseye shooter and commercial reloader on the east coast. Be warned!!! If you call him be prepared for a half our to an hour visit, he loves to share knowledge and he has a bunch of it.
http://www.nsksales.com/pricing/BULLETS.pdf
FWIW
They are very highly regarded as an accurate bullet. Especially the (now out of business) Star 185 and 200 hollow point semi wadcutter with the match lube. They would repeatedly hold within 1 1/2" at 50 yards out of a well built Bullseye pistol. In fact the go to load was 3.8gr Clays with the 185 or 200 gr HPSWC. If your pistol didn't shoot with that, it probably wouldn't with anything.
The swaged bullets would obturate very well and seal the bore because of their soft nature. They were excellent for the velocities that most Bullseye loads are traveling (650-750 fps) and exhibited minimal to no leading.
From what I gather, Precision Delta has taken up the swaging process for Bullseye shooters and 200 gr swaged bullets are now available from them. One supplier of excellent repute is Neil Kravitz of nsk sales. He is an avid bullseye shooter and commercial reloader on the east coast. Be warned!!! If you call him be prepared for a half our to an hour visit, he loves to share knowledge and he has a bunch of it.
http://www.nsksales.com/pricing/BULLETS.pdf
FWIW
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” – George Washington
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Georgezilla
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Wow, thank you both for all the great information!
I had no idea about the moly coating issue, and I now have a much deeper understanding of swaged bullets. It looks like Neil Kravitz sells Zero bullets, which I am familiar with.
Stork, do you mind explaining the 200grn semi-wadcutter hollow points? I have seen them before, and just my common sense tells me they wouldn't be ballistically sound. Especially at 50 yards. At 50yrds it seems like the bullet would have had a long time to fly through the air and open up, changing the ballistics of the bullet and perhaps causing some bad yaw.
I had no idea about the moly coating issue, and I now have a much deeper understanding of swaged bullets. It looks like Neil Kravitz sells Zero bullets, which I am familiar with.
Stork, do you mind explaining the 200grn semi-wadcutter hollow points? I have seen them before, and just my common sense tells me they wouldn't be ballistically sound. Especially at 50 yards. At 50yrds it seems like the bullet would have had a long time to fly through the air and open up, changing the ballistics of the bullet and perhaps causing some bad yaw.
The HP's were actually superior to a standard SWC. Both bullets have the same weight and shape. The hollow point takes some of the weight out of the nose of the bullet and pushes the center of gravity towards the rear of the bullet, adding to the stabilization of the bullet.
Star made both the HP SWC and the SWC. The hollow point shot far better than the solid nose and sold in much larger numbers than the stnd SWC.
I played with both Danzak and Moly on my prairie dog rifles about 15-20 yrs ago. They did allow me to shoot more rounds before a cleaning was needed, but I quit using it after about 5 years because of the extra steps involved with bullet prep and the hassle in getting it back out of the bore (see Bullseye's note on its tendency to absorb water) and then the 3-5 shots required to recoat the bore with moly when starting a new session.
I know of only one National Class Bullseye shooter that used moly bullets. Dr Darius Young shot them for decades (he's around 80 yrs young and would thoroughly trounce my little butt any day he chose) He also used Burris 2x pistol scopes and would concentrate on putting his first bullet in the center of the x, then shoot at that bullet hole.
FWIW
Star made both the HP SWC and the SWC. The hollow point shot far better than the solid nose and sold in much larger numbers than the stnd SWC.
I played with both Danzak and Moly on my prairie dog rifles about 15-20 yrs ago. They did allow me to shoot more rounds before a cleaning was needed, but I quit using it after about 5 years because of the extra steps involved with bullet prep and the hassle in getting it back out of the bore (see Bullseye's note on its tendency to absorb water) and then the 3-5 shots required to recoat the bore with moly when starting a new session.
I know of only one National Class Bullseye shooter that used moly bullets. Dr Darius Young shot them for decades (he's around 80 yrs young and would thoroughly trounce my little butt any day he chose) He also used Burris 2x pistol scopes and would concentrate on putting his first bullet in the center of the x, then shoot at that bullet hole.
FWIW
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” – George Washington
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Georgezilla
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Thanks for that information, Stork. Now that you have explained the HP SWC I can see the advantages.
It's a shame that the Star bullet company, even with the solid reputation you mentioned, went out of of business. I guess there just wasn't a big enough bullseye market to keep them going.
Mr. Young sounds like like quite a shot. I've never seen anyone fire a scoped pistol one-handed and get good results.
This was a very informative thread for me, thank you both for sharing your knowledge.
It's a shame that the Star bullet company, even with the solid reputation you mentioned, went out of of business. I guess there just wasn't a big enough bullseye market to keep them going.
Mr. Young sounds like like quite a shot. I've never seen anyone fire a scoped pistol one-handed and get good results.
This was a very informative thread for me, thank you both for sharing your knowledge.
I just looked at some of my old records. Doc Young won the national matches in 1979 and has been a pretty consistent winner in the Senior division.
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” – George Washington
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Georgezilla
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I am familiar with Allen Fulford. In my neck of the woods, there are no bullseye shooters, so no one to coach me. However, in the future I am planning to move and travel to matches, so I do not want to be way behind on the learning curve.
One way I try to augment my lack of having a coach is by watching dvd tutorials. One of them is "NRA Bullseye Competition Basics"
( http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?p ... ber=369760 ) which Allen Fulford hosts.
One way I try to augment my lack of having a coach is by watching dvd tutorials. One of them is "NRA Bullseye Competition Basics"
( http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?p ... ber=369760 ) which Allen Fulford hosts.