Need help with Mark III sear

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kseatm
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Need help with Mark III sear

Post by kseatm » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:59 am

I'm new to this forum as I found it from a link on Rimfire Central. I recently purchased a Volquartsen target sear, Clark Bushing, and Edge Extractor for my Mark III Target pistol. I wanted to help the trigger pull as it's terrible.

Everything went together pretty well except- my hammer won't drop! I've taken it apart, rechecked everything and reinstalled but it doesn't want to come off the sear. I set the overtravel screw in the stock trigger all the way in to make sure that's not causing the problem. It looks like the disconnector doesn't move the sear far enough forward to let the hammer come off it. The disconnector moves up and forward when the trigger is pulled but not enough to fully release the sear.

I can manually press the sear forward from the empty mainspring slot and get the hammer to fall and it doesn't take that much force, but from watching it as it's trying to function, the disconnector doesn't push it forward enough to get the hammer to come off during normal operation.

I reinstalled the stock sear and it works fine. After a few hours of trial and error over two days, I'm now at my stupid stage. I don't know what I'm missing, but it has to be simple.

Could it be the stock disconnector not being compatible with the target sear? Will a different disconnector possibly solve this?

Is it the sear? I found that there were bad ones at one time but from talking to Volquartsen yesterday, they said there shouldn't be any more out on the market.

I did find that if I slid the sear pin towards the bolt side just a little the sear would function. Unfortunately, this leaves the pin hanging out of the housing a little so that won't work.

I emailed Volquartsen this morning and they replied that they would send a new sear or I could send the gun to them and they'd look at it free of charge. To me that's really good customer service. I'd rather just figure out what is wrong and fix it if it's me or get a new sear if that's the problem.

If anyone has any ideas about what I might be doing wrong or what it could be, your ideas would be welcome.

I've had the gun for 8 months and have only shot maybe 5000 rounds through it. The trigger has always been terrible and I'd like to get it down to a normal pull of 2-4 lbs. Everything I've read says the Volquartsen sear was the easiest way to do that. Now to get it to work....

Thanks for any help...

Kenny

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Post by perazzi » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:36 pm

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Post by kseatm » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:02 pm

Thanks for the reply.

I think I've checked everything in that thread except the part of holding the trigger in while checking the disconnector for movement up and down. I'll do that and maybe buff the flat edges of the disconnector tomorrow as I have to go to work this evening.

One thing I did notice. I saw a modification on this site today about using washers to make a bushing to replace the Mag. Disconnect. The Clark Bushing I installed does the same thing except that I noticed that the large part of the bushing extends slightly over two of the edges of the Hammer when installed. With the washer modification I noticed these two areas were filed flat.

Could the Clark Bushing be causing this? Should I file the area that extends over the edge in line with the sear groove and the other area flat? I started to do that but like I said, the gun works fine like it is with the old sear. This makes me think it's in the disconnector. The disconnector slides up and forward to engage the sear when the trigger is pulled. The bottom lip of the disconnector just doesn't press the sear forward enough to release it.

Like I said, I'll buff the outside flat edges and tear it down again and check for movement up and down while holding the trigger. I wouldn't think I would want to change the inside edges of the disconnector hole that the bushing rides in or do anything to the edge of the lip that presses against the sear as that would make it worse, wouldn't it?

Again, thanks for your reply and if you or anyone else has seen this problem or have any ideas, please let me know. I like figuring things out but this has got me stumped.

Great site by the way... I have picked up a lot of ideas just from reading here the last two days.

Kenny

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Post by Bullseye » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:41 pm

Kenny,

There have been a bunch of VQ sears with this problem lately. I've noticed it with some of the bargain bin sears but there's been others who claim the regular ones are causing this condition too. Basically the trigger cannot travel far enough forward to release the sear on the hammer. The front edge of the trigger is striking the trigger well and not allowing the sear to release the hammer. Is this the case with yours? If it is, the problem is with an out of spec sear. You can contact VQ and they will send you another one.

The Clark bushing is not causing the problem. If it extends over the hook area and causes the sear to not seat fully on the hammer hook then the result is doubling.

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blue68f100
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Post by blue68f100 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:59 pm

What Mr. Bullseye said. There have been a bunch of out of spec sears from VQ and a newly design trigger that have been causing problems, too.

The Clark Bushing is suppose to have the gap between it and the hammer. The MKII does not have the cutout for the mag safety.
David

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Post by kseatm » Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:55 am

Thanks guys, I took it apart when I got home this morning to double check to see if the disconnector was binding. This thing has been bugging me for 3 days now. Everything on the disconnector looked and worked fine and I can see exactly what you're talking about with the trigger bottoming against the well.

I spoke to Volquartsen via email yesterday and Nic said he'd send me a new sear. I'll try that and hopefully it will solve the problem. If not, I'll just hone the stock sear a little and see what that does with the trigger pull.

This is the first Ruger pistol I've had apart and even though it's been a pain, at least I can take it apart and put it together without thinking now. So some good has come from all this.

Since you guys are experts on this pistol, a question. Instead of trying a new sear, how about milling a little off the front of the trigger where it contacts the well? It would possibly render the overtravel screw useless but wouldn't it be a fix for the problem. I thought about building up the lip on the bottom of the disconnector to make it contact the sear sooner giving it a better "push" if you will, but it looks like it would be easier to just file a little off the trigger instead. Has anyone ever tried this? I guess it would give you more pretravel, but combining that with a new set screw as shown in one of the stickies about pretravel mods, it could work, at least to me.

Maybe I have just spent too much of my life working around problems...

Anyway, thanks for all your help... At least I can take some comfort in knowing I'm not an idiot. I was afraid I was missing something really simple with the installation. Like I said, I've never owned a Ruger pistol before buying this one and one for my son. This is my first experience with complete stripping and it really wasn't that bad.

I do wish I'd seen this site before as it has great info and pictures on how to do everything.

I'll update this thread in a few days after trying the new sear.

Thanks again

Kenny

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Post by blue68f100 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:13 am

I would want on the replacement sear before doing anything else. The trigger mod would be a rather easy one, knowing you only needed to remove a small amount of material. But you will remove the anodizing.
David

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Post by bearandoldman » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:53 am

Only change one thing at a time, if you do more you willl not know which helped or hindered.
Old mechanic's alwys bellieved in this. When modifying engines both 2 and 4 cycle on cars. boat, 2 or 4 wheeled vehicles, it may take more time or it may not? Dependig on how many do overs you have to do.
You have great day and shoot straight and may the Good Lord smile on you.
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Post by Bullseye » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:17 pm

Before performing any more mods I'd wait for the new VQ sear.

Actually you can modify the trigger to allow that sear to operate but then you're making something work to account for an out of spec part. Here's where you could modify the trigger.

Image

I understand this is a Marvel trigger but you can remove material from the same area on a regular factory/VQ trigger to allow for more forward travel. But if your sear is not releasing the hammer at all it is doubtful that you can get enough movement to free the hammer from the sear face by this method. However if your trigger is just dragging after releasing the hammer then this method will definitely allow for clearance of the sear face on the hammer body.

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Latest update and a question...

Post by kseatm » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:27 pm

I received the new sear from Volquartsen. I installed it and it was better but it still stuck a little. I could get the hammer to release if I pressed on it a little but it still didn't work like I thought it should.

Now the funny part... I have been spending a bunch of time on this site as it has about everything and I found a picture that I have a question about. In the picture, it showed the lower frame of the Mark III, with the hammer and everything installed. But the Mainspring was installed also. So, I had the idea that maybe my problem might be caused by not having the mainspring in the frame as I check the sear/hammer. It doesn't make sense to me, but like I said, I'm a complete newbie to these guns.

I put the entire gun together, but did have to press the sear forward with a punch to get the hammer to drop so that I could install the mainspring housing.

It Worked!!! The gun works fine. The hammer falls and the trigger pull is awesome compared to what it was. I am either going to get the target trigger with the pretravel adjustment or modify my existing trigger as shown in one of the how- to's here as it has a boatload of pretravel, but breaks very crisp and light at around 2 lbs. I have cycled it and dry fired it on a spent casing about 50 times tonight with no problems.

My question is: Why is it working? With the stock sear I could easily flip the hammer forward to install the Mainspring. I could move it forward without the upper on easily. With the new sear, I can do it but have to giggle and press the sear from the back, not much, but some. But when it's all together, it works. Is the pressure from the Mainspring Assembly when installed enough to cause the hammer to fall when the sear releases?

I assume everything is fine and I can live with it as I know how to get it to work when I need to field strip for cleaning. I don't see where it will cause a safety problem, so I'm going to leave it as is unless anyone knows a reason why I shouldn't.

I am anxious to find if these mods help improve the accuracy as my SW 22a is much more accurate than this gun. It was hard to shoot though, as the trigger felt like you were pulling a brick back with your finger. So now I can get a better comparison between the two.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions, and if what I've got is wrong or unsafe, please let me know.

Great site, I've learned so much just from reading.

Thanks again,

Kenny

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Post by Bullseye » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:21 am

The only thing I can say here is something must have gotten overlooked in the process. The only difference between the frame with the mainspring in or out is tension on the hammer. Your new VQ sear is moving past the hammer hook but without tension it was hard for you to see. Once tension was applied, the hammer released as it should. You do not have anything unsafe. The sear is operating normally.

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Thanks...

Post by kseatm » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:55 pm

Bullseye,

Thanks again for your, and everyone else's help. I've looked over it again and you have to be right. The pressure applied from the Mainspring must be enough to flip the hammer forward. The old Volquartsen sear I installed wouldn't work with the gun together so that had to be bad. The new one doesn't act like the stock sear as it is hard to flip the hammer forward with the upper off, and with the stock sear, it flipped forward fine, but like I said, if it works when it's together, that's all I need.

This has been a great learning experience and hopefully I'll get to learn much more as I shoot this pistol. I love the looks of the gun, and hopefully now it will shoot better.


Have a good day and I hope I haven't been too much of a nuisance.

Kenny

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Post by blue68f100 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:34 pm

You may want to use a marker and cover the overrun area of the hammer to make sure it's not dragging when released. So if you by chance get light hammer strikes you will know why.

I hope every thing function fine for you.
David

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Update...

Post by kseatm » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:27 pm

Finally got to take the gun to the range. Loaded it up, sighted, pulled the trigger... really nice feel compared to before. Pulled the trigger for the next shot....

Nothing...

Tried cycling the gun several times, took out Mags., tried again... Pulled slide back, shells were extracting and being fed in, but no bang!

Played with it for awhile and it would work sometimes with no shells in the Mag. as I was checking by dryfiring. I got it to work once more on a live shell but then nothing. I guess the Hammer just isn't falling.

So...

Back to the drawing board. Oh well, I'll figure this out one way or another.

I'm going to mill the top front edge of the trigger, install a pre and post travel screw as shown in the mod's on this site and if that doesn't work, I'm sending both Volquartsen sears back and will just hone my old one to get what I want.

I just took it apart when I got home and I'm seeing the same thing as before. The disconnector moves up and forward and the sear is pressed forward when the trigger is pulled. The lip of the hammer catches the sear edge as it rotates up and forward. If it does go past, or if I press the sear more forward from the back to allow the hammer's lip to go past, the hammer goes forward and it rubs against the sear as the hammer rotates. It looks to me like a simple case of the sear not going far enough forward to allow the hammer to come off the sear's lip enough to fall forward. I don't know why it works if I put in an empty case and dryfire and then manually cycle the bolt on another empty case. It works fine like that.

I think milling the edge of the trigger will maybe help but if not, I'm going back to the stock sear and just clean it up a little.

If anyone has any other ideas, I'm willing to listen...

Thanks,

Kenny

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Post by Bullseye » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:43 pm

You don't have to mill it you can just use a file. For the over travel take some material off of the top front of the trigger like in this picture.

Image

I realize this picture is of a Marvel trigger and they are far blockier than a Ruger trigger. But this is the area where you can remove some of the metal for providing adequate clearance of the sear face on a Ruger factory trigger.

The opposite is true for your pretravel return. You want to remove some material off of the bottom half of the trigger (below the hammer pivot pin). The edge on the bottom is the area to focus on for more forward clearance.

This is a solvable problem. A little judicious metal work and your pistol will operate perfectly with that new sear.

R,
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