Stork & Bullseye
Thanks for the Distinguished Shooter information. Clearly, a Distinguished Shooter has some experience and has done some good shooting.
I am anxious to test the Dyna Points with the Ransom Rest. I think they are grouping pretty well because I can usually call my shots at 50 yards. They have been reliable in my Mark II. I got my first failure to fire, last week, after approximately 7,000 rounds. Very rarely I get the jam where the empty is trapped between the return spring rod and the next round. I have been meaning to work on the magazine lips but haven't gotten around to it yet.
wlambert
Conventional pistol
Moderators: Bullseye, Moderators
I've been getting very good results with the Dynapoints in my Marks. Far better than what I expected from ammunition that costs so little. I've had a few more missfires than you, but by no means have they been excessively high.
I shoot CCI-SV in my Model 41s for local league matches and Eley Tenex for the bigger events.
R,
Bullseye
I shoot CCI-SV in my Model 41s for local league matches and Eley Tenex for the bigger events.
R,
Bullseye
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arizona-hermit
- Regular contributor
- Posts: 204
- Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:01 am
- Location: The Old Southwest
Thanks for the Explanations
I am sure glad you guys explained all this Distinguished stuff to me, I do appreciate it. I was wandering around thinking you had to be silver-haired, with a walking stick, derby, and cravat to be Distinguished.
Whew,
I feel better now.
Whew,
I feel better now.
But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain. [1 COR 15:10a - NASB]
Bullseye,
Thanks for the heads up on only civilians getting numbered. I wasn't aware that Military shooters who went distinguished, weren't issued a number.
Live & learn. The only time you stop is when you're staring at the grass from the root side.
Stork
Thanks for the heads up on only civilians getting numbered. I wasn't aware that Military shooters who went distinguished, weren't issued a number.
Live & learn. The only time you stop is when you're staring at the grass from the root side.
Stork
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” – George Washington
Your welcome. Each service is responsible for tracking their own Distinguished shooters.
The whole program was originally set up to keep a ready list of people proficient in firearms usage in case of war, and an emergency call-up. Prior military folks are already on the war recall short list. The list originated back around post Civil War days when the military found they had no information for recalling skilled marksman to train recruits.
It's mostly outdated now, but that was the intended purpose of congress creating the Department of Civilian Marksmanship (DCM) now called the Civilian Marksmanship Program CMP).
R,
Bullseye
The whole program was originally set up to keep a ready list of people proficient in firearms usage in case of war, and an emergency call-up. Prior military folks are already on the war recall short list. The list originated back around post Civil War days when the military found they had no information for recalling skilled marksman to train recruits.
It's mostly outdated now, but that was the intended purpose of congress creating the Department of Civilian Marksmanship (DCM) now called the Civilian Marksmanship Program CMP).
R,
Bullseye
Hardball Gun
Let me know if I am straying too far off-topic, and I will start a new thread, but...
How much should I spend for a competitive hardball .45? I want a gun that I can use for the centerfire and .45 parts of the Bullseye matches, as well as straight hardball matches. I never plan on carrying this gun; it will be range-only.
Are there any makers who offer a .45 that is good right out of the box? If so, how do their prices compare with the total amount (gun, parts and labor) for a good smithed conversion?
And if smithed is the only way to go, what is a good gun to start with as my basic platform -- and do I dare shoot it before sending it to the smith?
I am shooting Bullseye with my .22 only at the present, using a Ruger Mk II Competition Slabside and an UltraDot (yes, I know -- no dots allowed in 'ball), and I am very happy with the value-for-money I received there. As soon as I can bear to be without the gun for a couple of weeks, I'll be getting a trigger job done on the Ruger to reduce and smooth travel and get a consistent, light break. But other than that, it's all the gun I want for that part of the competition. I shoot as well with it as my much more experienced friends do with their Smith & Wesson Model 41s. If it doesn't hit the X-ring, it's my wobble that's at fault, not the gun.
I know I can't get a .45 for anywhere near the price of my .22, but I would like to complete my purchase knowing that I have accomplished the same goal -- purchasing equipment with which I can win, yet know that I was frugal in the process.
BTW, in shooting my friends' .45s, I have no trouble at all moving from the grip angle of the Ruger to that of the 1911.
Tom
How much should I spend for a competitive hardball .45? I want a gun that I can use for the centerfire and .45 parts of the Bullseye matches, as well as straight hardball matches. I never plan on carrying this gun; it will be range-only.
Are there any makers who offer a .45 that is good right out of the box? If so, how do their prices compare with the total amount (gun, parts and labor) for a good smithed conversion?
And if smithed is the only way to go, what is a good gun to start with as my basic platform -- and do I dare shoot it before sending it to the smith?
I am shooting Bullseye with my .22 only at the present, using a Ruger Mk II Competition Slabside and an UltraDot (yes, I know -- no dots allowed in 'ball), and I am very happy with the value-for-money I received there. As soon as I can bear to be without the gun for a couple of weeks, I'll be getting a trigger job done on the Ruger to reduce and smooth travel and get a consistent, light break. But other than that, it's all the gun I want for that part of the competition. I shoot as well with it as my much more experienced friends do with their Smith & Wesson Model 41s. If it doesn't hit the X-ring, it's my wobble that's at fault, not the gun.
I know I can't get a .45 for anywhere near the price of my .22, but I would like to complete my purchase knowing that I have accomplished the same goal -- purchasing equipment with which I can win, yet know that I was frugal in the process.
BTW, in shooting my friends' .45s, I have no trouble at all moving from the grip angle of the Ruger to that of the 1911.
Tom
Morrisey,
A good hardball gun should run you between $1100 and 1300. If you want to look around you might pick up a used one from someone who has legged out and no longer wants to compete in that particular discipline. Used they should run between $650 and $900.
If you want to buy over the counter I would look at either Les Baer or Rock River (NOT ROCK ISLAND).
IF you go the hand built route I would check with the guys shooting your local matches, who built their guns. Then get on his list. Any really good BE 45 gunsmith is going to have a 6-24 month waiting list. The good thing about getting the hardball gun is that you can still shoot lead semi-wad ammo through it and not get the wear you will out of Ball ammo. I would get the cheapest Mil Spec that Springfield makes for a base for a ball gun. Your smith is going to replace all the interior anyway so why pay for stuff you won't be using.
Go ahead and shoot it, you won't hurt anything and you will really appreciate the improvement when you get the ball gun back.
You're right on the money with "I shoot as well with it as my much more experienced friends do with their Smith & Wesson Model 41s. If it doesn't hit the X-ring, it's my wobble that's at fault, not the gun". It's not necessarily the gun its the shooter gripping the gun that determines the score. The gun won't make that much difference until you are a High Master and competeing against other High Masters. I've shot many Hi Standards, Pardini's, Marvels, S&W 41's, Ivan's, and a few others I can't recall. In every case, I didn't shoot them any better than my Ruger. The new trigger will be a big help. If you haven't already try the difference between a roll trigger and a crisp trigger.
FWIW
Stork
A good hardball gun should run you between $1100 and 1300. If you want to look around you might pick up a used one from someone who has legged out and no longer wants to compete in that particular discipline. Used they should run between $650 and $900.
If you want to buy over the counter I would look at either Les Baer or Rock River (NOT ROCK ISLAND).
IF you go the hand built route I would check with the guys shooting your local matches, who built their guns. Then get on his list. Any really good BE 45 gunsmith is going to have a 6-24 month waiting list. The good thing about getting the hardball gun is that you can still shoot lead semi-wad ammo through it and not get the wear you will out of Ball ammo. I would get the cheapest Mil Spec that Springfield makes for a base for a ball gun. Your smith is going to replace all the interior anyway so why pay for stuff you won't be using.
Go ahead and shoot it, you won't hurt anything and you will really appreciate the improvement when you get the ball gun back.
You're right on the money with "I shoot as well with it as my much more experienced friends do with their Smith & Wesson Model 41s. If it doesn't hit the X-ring, it's my wobble that's at fault, not the gun". It's not necessarily the gun its the shooter gripping the gun that determines the score. The gun won't make that much difference until you are a High Master and competeing against other High Masters. I've shot many Hi Standards, Pardini's, Marvels, S&W 41's, Ivan's, and a few others I can't recall. In every case, I didn't shoot them any better than my Ruger. The new trigger will be a big help. If you haven't already try the difference between a roll trigger and a crisp trigger.
FWIW
Stork
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” – George Washington
Hardball Gun
How about Colt Gold Cup Trophy? Colt claims it is a "take-it-to-the-firing-line" gun. Is that the truth, or hyperbole?If you want to buy over the counter I would look at either Les Baer or Rock River
Tom
gold cup
Morrisey,
My personal opinion's are as follows, I wouldn't waste the money.
Gold Cup's carry a very high ratio of cost to value.
Gold Cup uses the Eliason rear sight. Bo-Mar is a much better constructed sight that won't fail you.
They need to have the frame & slide fitted, they need to have the barrel to bushing to frame fitted. They will need trigger work done. I believe they are sold with a 16# recoil spring, which should be replaced with an 18-20# spring if you want to shoot full hard ball. And, I believe the serrations on the top of the slide for elimination of glare also serve to disqualify it as a ball gun (there were never any serrations on the top straps of military 1911's) don't take that as gospel, I can't find my NRA rule book around. I'll repost if or when I find it.
Colt may advertise it as a "take it to the line" gun, but, they don't advertise it as a "take it to the line and win" gun. You go ahead and do what you wish, my opinion is the gold cup is a better than needed base to rip apart and build a competitive gun with, and then you still have those serrations to contend with.
Jeeees, I read through what I just wrote and boy,do I sound opinionated. I don't want to sound like a know it all because I am the first to admit I don't. But, I do talk to a lot of people and do a lot of Ransom Rest testing on a variety of hand built as opposed to factory 45's and have yet (excluding the Les Baer & Rock River) to find one that will shoot, I shoot a lot of both 22 and 45 year round and don't see why anyone should have to make the same mistakes I did or I've seen someone else make.
FWIW
Stork
My personal opinion's are as follows, I wouldn't waste the money.
Gold Cup's carry a very high ratio of cost to value.
Gold Cup uses the Eliason rear sight. Bo-Mar is a much better constructed sight that won't fail you.
They need to have the frame & slide fitted, they need to have the barrel to bushing to frame fitted. They will need trigger work done. I believe they are sold with a 16# recoil spring, which should be replaced with an 18-20# spring if you want to shoot full hard ball. And, I believe the serrations on the top of the slide for elimination of glare also serve to disqualify it as a ball gun (there were never any serrations on the top straps of military 1911's) don't take that as gospel, I can't find my NRA rule book around. I'll repost if or when I find it.
Colt may advertise it as a "take it to the line" gun, but, they don't advertise it as a "take it to the line and win" gun. You go ahead and do what you wish, my opinion is the gold cup is a better than needed base to rip apart and build a competitive gun with, and then you still have those serrations to contend with.
Jeeees, I read through what I just wrote and boy,do I sound opinionated. I don't want to sound like a know it all because I am the first to admit I don't. But, I do talk to a lot of people and do a lot of Ransom Rest testing on a variety of hand built as opposed to factory 45's and have yet (excluding the Les Baer & Rock River) to find one that will shoot, I shoot a lot of both 22 and 45 year round and don't see why anyone should have to make the same mistakes I did or I've seen someone else make.
FWIW
Stork
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” – George Washington
Stork -- many thanks for the reply, and I appreciate the candor. I have many friends who bought "target" .22s that are so light/loose that they can't group on a coffee-can lid at 50 yards. I'm glad I bought a Ruger that can shoot tight enough to put 'em all in the X from the bench (even before the trigger job). I am looking for a similar experience from my hardball gun.
I see that Springfield Armory offers a National Match Hardball from their Custom Shop, and I have heard it is a good, tight gun. But it lists for nearly $100 more than a Les Baer or a Rock River, and for more than a Clark Custom built on a Caspian frame.
I am chacking prices right now on the LB and RR. I'm also going through the house, finding unused guitars, cameras and other stuff that I can sell to get to the purchase price more quickly!
Tom
I see that Springfield Armory offers a National Match Hardball from their Custom Shop, and I have heard it is a good, tight gun. But it lists for nearly $100 more than a Les Baer or a Rock River, and for more than a Clark Custom built on a Caspian frame.
I am chacking prices right now on the LB and RR. I'm also going through the house, finding unused guitars, cameras and other stuff that I can sell to get to the purchase price more quickly!
Tom
Production tight isn't accuracy tight.
If you are serious about shooting bullseye, don't get a Gold Cup. You will soon out shoot the capability of that gun as your skills improve.
Building a personal match gun is the way to go. Do it right the first time. If you don't have the money to build it now, how will you find the money to replace substandard equipment later?
R,
Bullseye
If you are serious about shooting bullseye, don't get a Gold Cup. You will soon out shoot the capability of that gun as your skills improve.
Building a personal match gun is the way to go. Do it right the first time. If you don't have the money to build it now, how will you find the money to replace substandard equipment later?
R,
Bullseye
Thanks for the advice, all.
I have purchased a Springfield Armory Mil-Spec 1911-A1 45 ACP. AFter putting four range-visits worth of rounds through it (per my smith's advice), I am shipping it off this week for conversion to a 50-yard wad gun.
I'll post pix in a few months when the pistol comes back from the gunsmith.
Tom
I have purchased a Springfield Armory Mil-Spec 1911-A1 45 ACP. AFter putting four range-visits worth of rounds through it (per my smith's advice), I am shipping it off this week for conversion to a 50-yard wad gun.
I'll post pix in a few months when the pistol comes back from the gunsmith.
Tom
I'll be counting the minutes. Here's how it was grouping in timed fire before it left (but this is from the 25-yard line -- 50 would be a much different story):
This was two three-shot strings with the conventional one-handed bullseye grip. I was shooting the pistol for only the second time and the rudimentary Mil-Spec sights were not adjusted; I simply took a couple of preliminary shots to start each string (all four of which landed on the target, but off the patch), and then guesstimated a new POA when I "fired for effect" with the last three shots in each string.
I'll post an "after" when the pistol comes back.
Tom
This was two three-shot strings with the conventional one-handed bullseye grip. I was shooting the pistol for only the second time and the rudimentary Mil-Spec sights were not adjusted; I simply took a couple of preliminary shots to start each string (all four of which landed on the target, but off the patch), and then guesstimated a new POA when I "fired for effect" with the last three shots in each string.
I'll post an "after" when the pistol comes back.
Tom
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Ruffchaser
- New member
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:56 am
- Location: Wisconsin
That certainly doesnt seem that bad at 25 yds for 2nd time shooting the gun , especially for a $ 500.00 mil - spec . I finally got to see one last week and really liked it . I shot a friends auto ordinance and it was difficult to shoot with the small GI sights . I suppose you could get used to it . Good luck on your gun cant wait to see some pictures and targets .