Colt Gold Cup Trophy

Georgezilla · Post by **Georgezilla** » Fri May 11, 2007 8:01 am

I'am thinking of getting a 1911 style in a few months. I will be using it in bullseye competition as my .45 ACP and as the "must be .32 or larger" pistol -- so I want pretty nice accuracy out of the box something able to shoot a 5 shot 1" to 3" group at 25yds. So far the Colt Gold Cup Trophy seems best fit for the task.

If anyone has experience with this pistol, I'd really appreciate them sharing it

And if you don't think it can handle the task I'll ask of it, other recommendations are appreciated -- I'am willing to pay up to 1,300ish for a suited pistol.

Thanks.

princi · Post by **princi** » Fri May 11, 2007 12:16 pm

Georgezilla, I wish I could say wonderful things about mine, but I have to be honest. I, nor anyone that has shot mine, have never been impressed with the pistol. I think for the money that there are better choices out there. I've never been able to approach the accuracy of some of my other 1911's with the Colt. I bought it based on name alone without doing any research or getting others opinions. What can I say - you are smarter than I am.

I just went to www.sportingarms.com and did a search with parameters of: Pistol 1911 and max price of 1300. I got 4 pages of hits, but not what I was looking for. I then remembered that Les Baer, Wilson Combat, Kimber, etc. will not allow them to publish their prices because they are so much below MSRP (typically 7% markup).

However, I think there are some Les Baer's that are in that price range, or a couple of hundred more. Personally, I don't have a Les Baer, but the people at Sportingarms have told me that they have sold a lot of them and people really like them. (I have Taurus(1), Kimber(3), Wilson(2), Dan Wesson(1), Springfield(2), and STI(1) and of course the Colt). The Taurus knocked my socks off for the value. The STI Targetmaster (9mm) knocked my socks off for its performance right out of the box. Plus it is a lot cheaper to send 9mm rounds downrange than it is for .45 ACP. (I don't have money for ammo - spent it all on guns.

)

So, you are off to a good start - do some research before you plunk down the dollars.

Georgezilla · Post by **Georgezilla** » Fri May 11, 2007 4:43 pm

Thanks for the info. Originally I actually wanted a Kimber Gold Match II, but a couple of my friends advised me against Kimbers. So now I'am unsure.

I checked out the Les Baers, looked very nice. The Premier II 6" barrel caught my eye, it's MSRP was 1,700.

princi · Post by **princi** » Fri May 11, 2007 9:43 pm

I don't know how much the Les Baer's are discounted, but I know you don't have to pay MSRP. I have the Kimber Gold Match, and it is okay, but never really put a big grin on my face like the STI did. The other gun, which is no longer in production, and always placed a big grin on the face of those that shot it was my Sig P220 Sport. I got far more positive response with that gun than I ever did on my Sig P210 or any of my 1911's.

I know Sporting Arms does keep quite a few Les Baer's in stock, but I've been there when she told a customer that it could take 3 to 4 months to get one she didn't have in stock. If you call her, (972) 315-9086 tell her "Crazy Man" sent you.

Post by **Bullseye** » Fri May 11, 2007 10:37 pm

A Gold Cup isn't what you're looking for in a competition pistol. They were once marketed as an "out of the box" competition pistol but they never lived up to that hype. Durability with the Gold Cup is another issue, many failed from frame battering when shooters used ball ammo vice wadcutters. The hollow rear sight pins are highly prone to breaking and that caused "fliers" and inconsistent hits. Typically when the pin breaks it goes unnoticed by the operator.

There are many options for a good competitive pistol. But some of them depend on what your intentions are for competition. Do you want a pistol for NRA competition or do you also intend to compete in CMP Leg Matches with the pistol? Many shooters use the .45 (1911) as the same pistol for the Centerfire portion of the three gun National Match competition. There are different specifications between the NRA pistol and one CMP (Service Pistol) legal for Leg Matches.

Many people buy a basic frame, like a Springfield, Colt GI, Caspian, Rock River etc., and then have a custom builder make it into a competition gun. The 1911 competitive customizations consist of matching the fit for slide-to-frame, barrel to slide, trigger-to-sear-to-hammer, barrel bushing to slide and barrel. Taking the play out of these components will improve the accuracy to the levels you are looking for out of a competitive pistol. Typically new parts for the basic pistol, the match parts, and builders fees will run in the neighborhood of $1,400 to $1,700. Often you can find used bullseye competition 1911's for several hundred dollars less.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye

Georgezilla · Post by **Georgezilla** » Sat May 12, 2007 4:11 am

Thanks for giving me a name to drop, Princi. If what Bullseye said about the customizations that would be needed for a match grade pistol holds true to the Les Baers I probably won't end up with one.

Bullseye, in the long run I intend to use the pistol for the three gun national match competition. I do intend to use it as my center fire pistol for this competition.
Although my range is startting a CMP league I think, but I'm not real sure how the CMP matches work.

Final note: Are there any non-1911 style pistols in my price range (1,300ish) that could be accurized for bullseye style competition? I never considered them because they just don't seem to have the heft that the 1911's do. I don't think I'd be able to handle the recoil on something as lightweight as the non-1911's I've seen -- I thought I'd ask the more experienced before I completely disregarded non-1911's .

Thanks.

Post by **Bullseye** » Sat May 12, 2007 6:26 am

George,

There's a reason why the 1911 style pistol is the king of bullseye competition, its ease of accurization and the trigger pull. Most of the rest have long, heavy, or creepy triggers, and that just doesn't work well when you're trying to accurately shoot five shots in ten seconds.

Here's a few links that may help you with understanding the nature of bullseye competition. I can write all of this but since its already out there, I will just send you to it.

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/

Especially look at: TOOLS OF THE TRADE; the essential equipment, The custom-built bullseye handgun; and the introductory information section.

If your not looking to build a CMP legal "service pistol," then you can consider things like anotomical grips and red dot sights on your match pistol.

$1,300 should be more than enough to find a good used bullseye pistol. I've seen them for sale between $875 to $1,200.

R,
Bullseye

wlambert · Post by **wlambert** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:02 am

Georgezilla wrote:
Final note: Are there any non-1911 style pistols in my price range (1,300ish) that could be accurized for bullseye style competition? I never considered them because they just don't seem to have the heft that the 1911's do. I don't think I'd be able to handle the recoil on something as lightweight as the non-1911's I've seen -- I thought I'd ask the more experienced before I completely disregarded non-1911's .

Thanks.

Check out the Rock River Arms site. Their Bullseye Wadcutter is ready to go right out of the box. They run a little above your 1,300ish, but if you are a member of a club, you may find someone willing to sell a used RRA more in your price range. I have been very happy with my Rock River. Very accurate, and absolute reliability.

wlambert

Zed · Post by **Zed** » Sun May 13, 2007 6:25 am

Georgezilla wrote: If what Bullseye said about the customizations that would be needed for a match grade pistol holds true to the Les Baers I probably won't end up with one.

George,
The Rock River or the Les Baer wad guns are ready to go out of the box. I've shot both & presently own 2 Baers. I'd have to give the nod to Rock River for a better feeling trigger, but that's pretty subjective. Both triggers measure right at 3.5 lbs. Both are equally accurate. I did not opt for the 1.5" guarantee on the Baers - general consensus at my club is it isn't necessary & that is coming from high master shooters who shoot Baers. My son shoots my first Baer & he is master class - if I want to see mine shoot that well, I hand it to my son... heh heh.
If you belong to a bullseye club, just let it be known you are interested in buying a wad gun and you'll have lots of hardware to give a try. At least that's the way it is in my club, full of friendly, helpful shooters.

Post by **Bullseye** » Sun May 13, 2007 9:03 am

If what Bullseye said about the customizations that would be needed for a match grade pistol holds true to the Les Baers I probably won't end up with one.

I'm not grouping the Les Baers or the Rock River Custom pistols in with the Gold Cup. Most custom shop pistols, like the Les Baers and RR's, are ready to go out of the box. They just offer custom made competion guns in mass production like style. These guns get all the tender tweaking necessary to make them shoot well. You can feel confident that if you buy one of these guns it will perform well for you.

R,
Bullseye

Retired in 2001 · Post by **Retired in 2001** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:29 pm

Georgezilla wrote:Thanks for the info. Originally I actually wanted a Kimber Gold Match II, but a couple of my friends advised me against Kimbers. So now I'am unsure.

I checked out the Les Baers, looked very nice. The Premier II 6" barrel caught my eye, it's MSRP was 1,700.

I have the GOLD MATCH I.You will not be sorry.The series I has a internal extractor,series II external extractor,that were a problem.

Ruffchaser · Post by **Ruffchaser** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:00 am

I bought a used series 70 colt that someone did a trigger job on and did a frame mount for a red dot . It was plenty good for the 50' line but not for 50 yrds. I have it at clark custom guns right now , cant wait to get it back . All total Ill have 1400 in it. People at my club love the rock rivers . Another place to look is Larrys Guns, he always has some used bullseye guns and has a good rep. and is all about bullseye. He could tell you what his used guns will do. Ive seen some used les baers there with scope mounts or not in your price range.

madcratebuilder · Post by **madcratebuilder** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:12 pm

I'm very happy with my Colt Gold Cup Trophy. Out of the box they can use a minor clean up, and if you shoot anything but target wadcutters you need to change the recoil spring. Thousands of rounds over ten years and no problems. There was not as many choices when I bought mine, some of these new race pistol look mighty fine. I've shot a modded Springfield and a RRA, both outstanding.

gcp · Post by **gcp** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:42 pm

Here's my 1967 Gold Cup National Match. It is an absolute dream to shoot and it's hands down my favorite 45 ACPs out of all that I've shot to date.

slabsides · Post by **slabsides** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:25 pm

New poster, here, doing some catching up!
I've got a National Match (pre-Gold Cup) like gcp's that I bought in late 1978. Three seasons of NRA shooting later, I sent the slide in to Colt to have a blemish reblued. They lost my slide, sent me a stripped Govt. model back! After the dust settled, Al De John, then the head of the Colt Custom shop, had my gun back to me reassembled with solid pins, new stocks, a couple of fitted magazines, and a new test target that was better than the original one. The only mods I've made since are to fit a small neoprene buffer under the rear sight (bouncing is one of the things that shear sight pins) and substituting an 18 lb recoil spring and extra power firing pin spring for the factory softball set-up. Those Nat. Match guns made in the era of gcp's and mine are a far cry from what you get now when you buy a Gold Cup. I love mine and wouldn't trade it for any custom under $2000.

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