A Tale of Two guns (and the companies that make them)

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3strokes
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A Tale of Two guns (and the companies that make them)

Post by 3strokes » Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:38 pm

A tale of two guns. (similar posted on S&WForum)

About one and a half years ago I purchased a Ruger 22/45 Mark III (.22 LR) with replaceable panels (I have a few 1911 nice grips).
As time went by and I was mentioning to fellow shooters that I felt that "something" was not right with the gun. I felt it might have been the V-shaped Rear-sights. I changed the sights to Volquartsen ones and still I wasn't comfortable. I also didn't want to expose myself to the chiding of, "It's the shooter, not the gun."
I took pictures of the gun upside down, on a tabletop, where its base was a very narrow triangle whose apexes where the two points of the rear sight and the front sight. I placed a right-angled square next to it and the angle of cant of the gun was noticeable.
Just as I was in the process of writing to Ruger and planning to send the gun to their Canadian Repair Centre, the bolt jammed and I was unable to disassemble it. Forced to send the gun, anyway, I attached a note and a picture of the gun by the square.
The repair centre fixed the jam and sent the gun to their armourer. He did confirm that the dovetail slot for the rear-sight had been machined wrong, resulting in that cant.
Since Ruger had stopped production of that particular Stainless Steel model, they offered me a free replacement with any similar gun up to their newly marketed 22/45 Lite. I accepted and they rushed me one via their Repair Centre who also registered the handgun for me with the authorities.

Now to Smith & Wesson

Just this last February I found a NIB S&W 617-6 10-shot cylinder, 6" barrel. A beauty and a joy to shoot. I disassembled it (just took off the side-plate to look at the insides) once, following many Youtube videos and watching Jerry Miculek's DVD "Trigger job".
I decided to get the Wolff Trigger Rebound Springs kit and when I removed the side-plate to install it, the yoke screw kept turning under my screwdriver but was NOT coming out.
I removed the other two screws and tapped on the grip frame (as per usual instructions). The side plate came off and the top half of the yoke screw fell out. It had been sheared clean around its middle. The bottom part was still engaged in the gun frame and its plunger/ball/head still inside its yoke slot.
The cylinder and yoke could not be removed.
I was unable to remove the screw part that was stuck inside and I didn't want to mess up with screw removers, tapping or destroying with a drill, etc... So I knew that eventually I would need to go to a gunsmith.
I wrote S&W qa people. Sent them all these details and a couple of pictures. They tell me (after all that) to remove the yoke and the part will fall out. AS IF I HADN'T ALREADY TRIED TO DO THAT AND TOLD THEM ABOUT IT. (Sorry for the shouting.)

I write back to them and this is their reply, verbatim
I gave you a suggestion because there is no way to send you a new yoke screw for no charge. Sometimes the screws can be put together and reused. You send a pic that does not open for me so now I'm guessing at your problem. You do not live in the USA so I can't help you. If you lived here your problem would have been corrected at no charge to you.

The pictures were .jpg
Same exact pictures that can be found here

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolv ... t137149888
Last edited by 3strokes on Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Coach1
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Post by Coach1 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:15 pm

The pics opened just fine for me. I would give the S&W QA guy a failing grade for customer satisfaction and support. It would not take a lot of extra work to find a media app to open your photos. And that comment about the fact you are in Canada as a hindrance is totally bogus. But even so, I think the best you can expect from them is a replacement screw.. for free (first class postage to Canada can't be that unfordable). With a new screw in hand, I suspect you would be better off finding a local gunsmith versus trying to remove the broken screw stub yourself. Best of luck.
"You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need." The Rolling Stones

3strokes
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Post by 3strokes » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:05 pm

Coach1 wrote:The pics opened just fine for me. I would give the S&W QA guy a failing grade for customer satisfaction and support. It would not take a lot of extra work to find a media app to open your photos. And that comment about the fact you are in Canada as a hindrance is totally bogus. But even so, I think the best you can expect from them is a replacement screw.. for free (first class postage to Canada can't be that unfordable). With a new screw in hand, I suspect you would be better off finding a local gunsmith versus trying to remove the broken screw stub yourself. Best of luck.
I did manage to contact the S&W Warranty Centre in Canada (I found them no thanks to the S&W Customer Service people). They said to send them the gun if I was unable to safely clear the stub of the broken screw. I was unable to do it without possibly messing up so I sent it off to them.
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greener

Post by greener » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:54 am

Sometimes communication with customer service can really be frustrating. I've had pretty good service from S&W, Ruger and Taurus. It took Ruger two tries to fix my LC9, but, except for 4 40-mile round trips to ship it, no cost to me.

Sounds like your S&W rep was not at his best in his response to you.

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Post by ruger22 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:28 am

Best of luck for a fast turn-around on the S&W. I have heard good of their customer service, but seems to be a rare thing.
* 2 Ruger Bearcat stainless, w/ EWK ejector housings & Wolff springs
* Ruger SP-101 .22LR, w/ Wolff springs
* 2 NAA Guardian .32ACP
* 3 Zastava M70 .32ACP
* S&W 15-22 Sport (.22LR AR)
* 2 Ruger SR22 .22LR pistols

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Post by 3strokes » Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:47 am

ruger22 wrote:Best of luck for a fast turn-around on the S&W. I have heard good of their customer service, but seems to be a rare thing.
I was favourably impressed by their (the Canadian Centre's) guy on the phone, Thursday. He didn't try laying blame and didn't try weaseling out of it. He was ready to ship me a yoke screw IF I managed to clear the path. I shipped the gun on Friday (two-business days parcel). That means he should be getting it tomorrow Monday. (I hate weekends when "something" you're doing is counted in business days.)

What I hated about S&W's home office Customer Service was the sarcastic attitude. "You don't expect us to send it to you at no charge, do you?"-kind of attitude. Actually I did and do. Ruger replaced a whole handgun. Blue Line activities, the Canadian representative for the German GSG 1911 .22LR sent all their Canadian customers replacement guide rods and bushings when some of the original parts were not 100%. They didn't ask for proof or purchase or serial numbers. Just ask for it and they sent them. They have a customer (not only me, I'd venture) for life. When I was actively looking for the 617, they, Blue Line, were the first ones I asked if they had them.

A range member who got to shoot my 617 its first time out at the range, was asking me a few days ago if I'd recommend him buying one (They're a bit pricier than our Rugers---practically double). I dissuaded him last week due to the email exchanges I had had with S&W C.S. However after I talked with the Canadian Warranty Centre and saw their attitude, I did recommend them. Knowing that "somebody" has our backs helps our decisions. I still would not recommend S&W, as a whole, in Canada without adding my little story.
Member NRA, CSSA and NFA (the last two in Canada).

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