S&W QC, another reason to like Rugers!

Japle · Post by **Japle** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:13 pm

S&W does have other customers, and I am sure they don't base their turnaround time on forum hits that certain issues get.

It seems you're correct.

greener · Post by **greener** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:49 am

It's hard to tell what the turnaround is. I've sent 3 pistols back to S&W.
The 22A and Walther P22 took about 4 weeks. The M&P was 7 days. I'd guess that they have folks who do different types/models and the turnaround time depends on how backed up the specific repair folks are. The M&P was early in the commercialization and they may well have been doing the repairs quickly for the positive publicity.

S&W provides free shipping and seems to be pretty generous on not charging for repairs. Why complain about the time.

Japle · Post by **Japle** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:24 pm

I'm not really complaining about the time. I'm a little surprised that a gun with this much publicity didn't get priority, but I've been in lots of management meetings myself. I can imagine a manager making the decision to put the gun at the tail of the line. "Treat it like any other return/repair and make damn sure it's right this time".

That's understandable.

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:12 pm

Maybe I am missing something but just what is the history on this gun?

Coach1 · Post by **Coach1** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:26 pm

I scanned all the posts by Japle ... in case I missed something, too. But B&OM has a good question.

I cannot find in the 5 posts by Japle
1. The model of S&W pistol and
2. the problem that prompted him to return the gun to Smith for warranty service.

Also, is this a new gun.. or a long time friend?

Japle.. please clarify for us.

Georgezilla · Post by **Georgezilla** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:17 pm

This specific topic on GTO was not started by Japle, it was started by a Ruger22 who ran across Japle's thread on another forum. Here is the thread being cited:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=632524

The problem Japle has with his S&W revolver is that the cylinder is a 6 rounder, but it has been fluted 7 times. As a result, on many points of the cylinder the metal that supports the case is much too thin.

Coach1 · Post by **Coach1** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:35 pm

Georgezilla...
I recall that post.. with pics. Ruger22 provided a link to the other forum.

I was wondering how that was resolved. Ruger wanted the gun returned ... or just return the cylinder? In either case, that 7 fluted six shooter would be lost in the QC dept at Ruger forever. (Brings to mind the closing scenes of Raiders of the Lost Ark).

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:19 am

Just curious as to what the latest is on this?
How was this gun purchased? Sight unseen. like on the Internet or by mail order from some shop?
Three people dropped the ball on this one
1 S&W for letting it get out the door.
2 The LGS or selling dealer for selling it like this.
3 The buyer, if he had the gun in his hands before purchasing it.
The first thing I do with a gun, even my own, when picking it up is to check to see if it is loaded. Flipping the cylinder ope to check for rounds would have had to see the problem?

Japle · Post by **Japle** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:04 pm

UPDATE: 1/25/12

I got a call from Jon Young at S&W Customer Service. He says getting an unfluted cylinder installed won’t be a problem, BUT:

1. When he told me on 1/3 that I could keep the screwed-up cylinder, that wasn’t true. They want it back. He’s sending me a return shipping label.

2. When he told me on 1/3 that nobody would change anything inside the gun, that all I had to do was specify in my letter that I wanted the action job left alone, that this was routine and wouldn’t be any problem, that wasn’t true. They’re going to replace the Bang, Inc springs and the C&S extended firing pin. The parts will be returned to me and I’ll have to install them again.

Jon claimed he thought what he told me was true, but when I questioned him, it turns out he claimed he didn’t know and was just guessing. He actually had no damn idea if what he was telling me was the truth. I strongly suspect he was just making it all up as he went along, telling me what he thought I wanted to hear. To say I’m displease at having smoke blown up my rear end on two separate issues by a guy who’s representing S&W is a titanic understatement.

He’s walking the gun back to the repair section. He says they expect to ship my gun tomorrow.

Right now I’m seriously POed. Up until now, this was a case of carelessness and failure of Quality Control in the manufacturing process. Now I’ve been lied to. Flat-out lied to.

I am not happy.

greener · Post by **greener** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:14 pm

I'm trying to put the time frame together. It looks like you started dealing with s&W around Christmas(?). Discounting holidays, their turnaround is 3-4 weeks.

I'd have been really surprised that they would let you keep the cylinder. It is a liability to S&W. They can't guarantee you want use an obviously defective part.

Ruger is infamous for returning firearms sent to them to factory standard. I'm surprised that S&W wouldn't do the same thing. I'd guess the only action jobs they would accept is one they did. Again it is liability. Ruger and S&W, unlike most manufacturers, do warranty work on customer-modified products.

Looks like you got a CS rep who made stuff up when he didn't know the answer instead of saying he didn't know. I'd be miffed by that.

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:51 pm

Not unusual that S&W would want the cylinder back and to change the parts to OEM, at least they said they would return the aftermarket parts.
After spending over 30 years as a service tech on Yamaha's full line of products and many lawn and garden manufacturers and doing warranty service, I can see their point. To cover themselves for altered parts and after all, as they are replacing the cylinder the old one really belongs to them and not be be a TROPHY for your collection. Just makes sense to me.

Georgezilla · Post by **Georgezilla** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:06 pm

Japle, I see your frustration with the misinformation.

As consumers, I think we have all had someone in [company name here]'s customer service. However, based on my knowledge, greener and BOM are on point. If firearm companies let firearms leave their doors without being in factory configuration, it leaves them open for lawsuits. As far as keeping the defective cylinder, I suspect greener's point that S&W cannot guarantee that you (or someone else) will not use the defective part. I think the CS rep you spoke to was indeed misinformed.

On the bright side, I'm sure if you express your frustration with the regard to the accuracy of the information you were given, you could probably get a free jacket or something

Japle · Post by **Japle** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:10 am

I wouldn't be upset if they'd told me right at the beginning that they wanted the cylinder back and they wouldn't send the gun back with aftermarket parts in it.

But they didn't do that. Their CS guy told me it was OK if I kept the cylinder. He said they'd leave the parts alone. That was a lie.

In the CS business, you should never promise something if you cannot make it happen. If a customer asks you a question and you don't know the answer for sure, the proper response is, "I don't know, but I'll find out and call you back". That's not what happened. Instead, he "shined me on". That’s unacceptable.

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:16 am

Japle wrote:
In the CS business, you should never promise something if you cannot make it happen. If a customer asks you a question and you don't know the answer for sure, the proper response is, "I don't know, but I'll find out and call you back". That's not what happened. Instead, he "shined me on". That’s unacceptable.

Got to agree with you on that one, if you don't know; admit it and find out the real answer.
Still curious as to the purchase of this gun. Was it internet or mail order or an over the counter with the LGS?

Japle · Post by **Japle** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:58 am

Still curious as to the purchase of this gun. Was it internet or mail order or an over the counter with the LGS?

I was in a local gun shop and mentioned that I was looking for a 686 SSR. The owner checked with his supplier, got me a very good price and I ordered it.

The owner had no chance to inspect the gun before I bought it. He's not responsible in any way for selling me a gun that never should have left the factory. After I'd done the action job and found the screw-up with the cylinder, I took the gun back to the shop and let him try the action. He loved it. Then I pointed out the cylinder. He went white. I can imagine what was going through his mind.

Anyway, officially, I absolve Johnathan of any responsibility in this fiasco.

GunTalk-Online.com

S&W QC, another reason to like Rugers!

Ditto

I remember that