1911 misfeeds

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Georgezilla
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1911 misfeeds

Post by Georgezilla » Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:25 am

After using a new load and recoil spring, the 1911 I use has been having an occasional feeding issue.

The pistol in question is a Les Baer Hardball with a #12 recoil spring using Tripp Research magazines and firing this load: 200gr swaged LSWC, 3.9gr of WST powder, OAL of 1.24.7. The pistol has never had any feeding issues before using this load and spring (The magazines have not caused any previous problems either). The misfeeds it has been experiencing with the above combo looks like this:
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I'd really appreciate it if someone could tell me what this type of misdeed is indicative of and share some advice on how one could remedy it.

Thanks.

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Post by Bullseye » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:25 am

What you have there is a classic example of the 1911 "3 point jam". This condition is commonly caused by mis-timed barrel that raises upward in the loading cycle a little too soon. The three points of the jam are the cartridge nose on the throat, the cartridge case on the bottom of the chamber mouth, and the cartridge rim on the breech face just under the extractor hook. Typically this is cause by the barrel riding the slide stop crosspin by the barrel link instead of it riding on the lower lugs.

Have you had this problem happen before? Why are you using a Tripp Research magazine?

Without being able to inspect the pistol the remedy can be as simple as fitting a new barrel link or as complicated as replacing and refitting a new barrel. It depends on if the barrel was fitted properly or if the link is the wrong size. The key is how does the barrel sit on the slide stop crosspin as the link rotates around the lower barrel lug's radius? If it is just sitting on the barrel link then this is the cause of your problem. The barrel should contact the crosspin on the lugs, not the just the link.

Hope this helps.

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Post by Georgezilla » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:52 pm

The pistol has never had this problem before, and it has quite a few rounds through it. The barrel does contact the crosspin on the lugs.

This pistol was cleaned about 350 rounds ago, but there appears to be caked on powder residue where the underside of the barrels chamber rests on the frame, I am not sure if that could be causing a problem.

I got the Tripp magazines because I was advised they were the best. I am planning on getting new magazines soon though. I thought 10 round mags were needed for bullseye when I got them...

On the two occasions the 3 point jam happened it was with the Tripp magazines. The factory magazine Les Baer shipped with the pistol does get ran through it and it has not experienced the 3 point jam.

Could the magazines cause this? I notice that when I load the magazines the Tripp ones do not feel nearly as "smooth" as the factory mag, and I have never cleaned them.

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Post by Bullseye » Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:49 pm

It may be the Tripp magazine causing the jam problem as they have a lower release point than a standard magazine. If you continue to see this problem with your Baer pistol and other magazines then you should contact LB and they will fix it for you.

The only way the powder residue could cause a problem like this is if it holds the chamber mouth up high enough off the frame bed for the bullet nose to contact it and then cause the barrel to start upwards towards locking prematurely.

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Post by Georgezilla » Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:06 pm

Thank you very much for the insight Bullseye. Next range session I will fire 100 rounds or so just using the the Baer mag.

Bullseye (or anyone with experience that they care to share), for match shooting with a 1911 which brands of magazines have you had good experience with? I know to some extent it depends on the pistol, but are there a couple brands you could recommend to me?

Thanks!

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Post by Bullseye » Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:20 pm

I use a lot of GI mags but I tune them for each gun. Tuning usually means using a feed lip yoke and anvil on it to alter the feed lip profile release point for wadcutters.

In general Wilson mags tend work very well overall, especially with wadcutter bullets.

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Post by KAZ » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:09 pm

I think that you are on to something when you try the LB mags. A 1911 Smith pal of mine kept trusted Colt mags that he would do a first test on a misbehaving pistol. I myself love the Chip McCormick mags or, any that were tuned to my pistol by Bullseye 8)
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Post by Python » Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:36 pm

George;

If I read your statement correctly, it all started with the 200gr. LSWC bullets, correct ?

From my understanding there is a difference in feed lips between hardball and SWC bullet magazines.(something to do with release rates/ points etc).

When I started rolling my own 200 gr LSWC I went through some issues of feeding until I did some experimentation and now have a extremely reliable load.

I now load 200gr SWC for the long line and 180gr SWC for the short line using the same thumbnail shoilder distance and .469" taper crimp.

Overall length does not matter cause it varies from bullet to bullet.
Load the SWC of any grain/ size so you have a thumbnail of shoulder sticking above the case mouth and taper crimp to .469"

Try that first, if you already have not.

If you still have the same problem then look to the magazine as not releasing the SWC at the right time for reliable feeding.

Just my thoughts(whether they be good ones or not).

I have a pair of CMI Elite stainless steel mags that came with my Rock River and never had a problem with them after getting the bullets made properly.

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Post by KAZ » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:22 pm

Clarence, anyone who shoots scores such as yours has worthy thoughts! Do you remember when the CMC mags won out in the great magazine test a few years ago? Regards
Last edited by KAZ on Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Georgezilla » Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:45 pm

Thanks for the reply, Python. The problem didn't start with 200gr LSWC. The pistol has had quite a few 200gr LSWCs through it (far more LSWCs than HBs). However, previously they were all hardcast bullets. The load that had been run through this pistol with 100% reliability sounds like similiar specs as yours (minus the charge), 200gr hardcast LSWC over 4.2grs of WST, .469" taper crimp.

The problem started with swaged bullets over 3.9grs of WST with a crimp of .471". I did not think about the crimp causing a problem, I think you may be onto something.

Based on my readings, .crimping .45 swaged bullets should lower than .47" should be avoided. If what I have read is correct, my only option would be to switch back to hardcast and put more crimp on.

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Post by Python » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:22 am

KAZ;

It really does not matter what brand of magazine wins awards, it is the brand of magazine that functions flawlessly through your equipment, which sometimes takes some experimenting to make it perfect or next to perfect.

George;

I bought 1000 heads of the 200 gr. SWC swaged bullets from a reputable company(I will not state the name).

They were CRAP.

I ended up using them all on the short line cause they could not hold the 8 ring at the long line.

Swaged bullets are softer and I never through all my experimenting made a good or consistant load.(crimped at .469" at the short line and they performed alright.)

As a side note, anything over .469" did not prove trustworthy.

I have been using Dardas 200 gr SWC at the long line with 4.45gr Solo 1000

At the short line, am using Dardas 185gr with 3.76gr Solo 1000

I like this cause I do not have to change the scope dope.

Dead on with these loads.

But your mileage may vary.

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Post by Georgezilla » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:39 am

Thanks a lot for sharing your experience, Python. I decided to try swaged bullets because I was not happy with the hardcast stuff I could find locally. I had been wanting to see how swaged bullets work and I found a distributor that offered free shipping, so it seemed like a good opportunity.

I will have to give these Dardas a try. I am glad to have a recommendation on a hardcast maker.

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Post by KAZ » Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:24 am

Clarence, good to know, I was under the impression that some magazines were not as well made as others. Regards
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Post by Georgezilla » Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:33 pm

The pistol ran 100 rounds through the factory magazine without issue.

The swaged bullets are significantly dirtier than the previous loads that were put through the pistol, so I suppose the extra dirt combined with the low release point of the Tripp mags was causing the jams.

I don't think 100 rounds is enough to definitively say the magazines were the issue, but the last 100 rounds that were put through with the Tripp mags had 3 or 4 3-point jams so it may be a good indicator.

Thank you all for helping me diagnose this problem.

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Post by Baldy » Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:10 pm

I bought my Kimber just to shoot the league with. When I got it I also bought 5 Wilson #47 mags, 7 rounders. I kept track of the rounds fired up to 8,000rds and gave up. Their still going strong. :)

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