Rant on Smith & Wesson quality

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Oldguy
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Rant on Smith & Wesson quality

Post by Oldguy » Tue May 04, 2010 12:01 pm

This may cause some problems, but I need to share my recent experiences with 3 different Smith & Wesson handguns I've purchased over the last 2-3 years. I have an M&P 9, Pro Series 686, and Doug Koening 1911. And I have (or have had) problems with all three.

First, the 1911 because it was a minor problem. However, it should not have been a problem on a 1911 that retails for over $1,400. When I cleaned it before shooting, one of the screws on the right grip was boogered up, and was hard to remove. Would go in and out, but with difficulty. Looks like the grip screw bushing was cross-threaded at the factory. I had a gunsmith replace them, but this should not be an issue on this pistol. Wondered how it was put together at the factory, and didn't someone notice? How did it get through quality control?

Second, the Pro Series 686. I bought this because my shooting buddy has an older 686 that is a tack driver. We have a 6" gong and I can hit the gong 6 out of 6 at 25 yards, double action, fairly consistently with his. Not with the Pro Series. After some experimenting, we set up a paper target at 10 yards and was lucky to stay on the paper. Same for my buddy who is an excellent shot. Happened with .357 and .38, target handloads we used in his 686 as well as factory ammo. Started looking and noticed the forcing cone had "rings" in it that looked like machining marks. Had a gunsmith look at it and his first impression was "That's not right." I returned it to S&W, and after a month got it back with cryptic note saying "Honed forcing cone, replaced barrel." Seems to be OK now, but shouldn't have to do this with a Pro Series (supposedly better parts and careful assemble. Not the custom shop, but supposed to be a notch above the run of the mill 686. Agin, how did it get through final inspection?

Finally, the M&P 9. This thing has been a huge disappointment. While it's reliable and comfortable to shoot, the sights are WAY off. I understand this is a combat gun and it's not designed to be a target gun, and also understand the sight picture is different (dots are point of impact, and not a 6 o'clock hold). I shoot it low left. Not a little but a lot. Aim for the chest, and I'll hit him in the johnson. I've read that it takes some getting used to, jerking the trigger, anticipating recoil and all that, but it's not just me. My Glock 27 is point of aim, 3 inches off-hand at 10 yards. Everyone I've let shoot this thing (4-5 different people) says it's not right. Sunday a guy I know (who puts 10 shots with whatever he's shooting in 3-4 inches) can't hit the target. Only way to get this thing on target is hold center dot at top of rear sight. I've read S&W will replace with a lower front sight, as they had some problems, but I really wonder about the quality control, or lack thereof.

I've always liked Smith & Wesson (reputation, American made, quality) but I have baought my last one. I've given these people about $2,500 or so on 3 gunds and had problems with all of them. Don't mean to stir up a hornets nest here, but damn, this is getting old. Anyone else?

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Post by Downeaster » Tue May 04, 2010 12:44 pm

S&W got bought out by a conglomerate that is ONLY interested in the bottom line. That has happened to several firearms manufacturers over the last 20 years, and quality ALWAYS suffers as they cut costs to the bone to make investors happy.

My Smiths are all 1980 or earlier and are from the days when S&W was the definition of quality in revolvers. I wouldn't buy a new one on a bet.
An empty weapon is just a very expensive hammer.

greener

Post by greener » Tue May 04, 2010 6:04 pm

Sounds like you've had more than your share of problems. I'd write S&W a letter explaining my disappointment with their quality control. Do they still have the lifetime warranty? Travel to S&W was on their dime.

If the pistol isn't satisfactory, I'd send it back to them with a detailed explanation of why it doesn't meet your standards. Usually, they take care of the problem.

The M&P for me was difficult. I tend to push some striker-fired pistols left if I'm not careful about grip. Mine also shot left and low without my help. Low left is usually a sign of trigger technique but that's where mine shot. My front sight was off center, right. Instead of beating on it, I sent a new gun back. They fixed it. It now shoots POI=POA. I like the M&P now that I have confidence in it's accuracy. It is darned reliable.

Have a long, talk with S&W. My experience is they address your problems. However, you shouldn't have a problem at the prices they like to charge.

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arizona-hermit
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S&W 'Quality'

Post by arizona-hermit » Wed May 05, 2010 5:23 pm

I had a similar issue with Smith pistols oldguy.

I was stationed in Europe in the early 70's and purchased a S&W Model 29 with 8" barrel (44 mag). I had that piece of utter garbage for just under one year and had shot the rifling completely out of the barrel. Barrel looked just like a shotgun. I returned it to the Rod and Gun club and they returned it to S&W for a replacement.

Needless to say, the very week I got the brand spanking new replacement, I traded it off to a German Police friend of mine and he was extremely pleased with it.

I never shot the thing very often since I had a few Ruger Blackhawks, and I have shied away from S&W (except for one ill advised foray into their 45 auto offering many years later) without any regrets. They may well be (or have been) a quality manufacturer, but you could not have proved it by me.
But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain. [1 COR 15:10a - NASB]

greener

Post by greener » Wed May 05, 2010 9:22 pm

One bad experience and I'd be unhappy. Three consecutive and my language would not be suitable for the dinner table or polite society.

Oldguy
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Post by Oldguy » Sun May 09, 2010 12:31 pm

I called Smith on Tuesday. They said to return the M&P (were sending a shipping label but haven't got it yet) as they want to make me happy. I told the guy about the other problems and told him I was concerned about the quality control, or lack thereof. He said he would pass it on, for whatever that's worth. At least they are acting like they care, but we'll see. I'll keep you posted.

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