Looking for Opinions

Post by **Bullseye** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:48 am

Back in the 70s the rage for customization was to use revolver sights on series 70 1911s. Famed pistolsmiths like Armand Swenson used to take rear S&W K Frame adjustable sights and mill them onto the slide with a slot that went up to the ejection port. Here's an example of one. (click on the thumbnail to enlarge)

Many other custom 1911 gunsmiths copied this method. Likely yours had this kind of sight installed at one time, based on your description of the milled slot.

The collet style barrel busing was a good idea that never quite worked out well. They're prone to breaking, and when they do, it is usually a catastrophic failure. If you have one that works, they'll give you a slight increase in accuracy, but a properly fitted match bushing is far better. Colt realized that style of bushing was prone to failure and did away with them later on.

If your pistol has any checkering or lines cut on it, then it likely has been reblued at one time. Just milling the top of the slide for the revolver sights didn't necessarily mean a doing whole complete reblue job.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye

Ruffchaser · Post by **Ruffchaser** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:10 am

Thanks for the info. Bullseye. It looks like that would be correct on the sight . can a match bushing be fitted on that colt barrel ? I read somewhere that those barrels used with those collet bushings were flared instead of tapered ? Or would I need a new match barrel also .That is probably my best bet ? I dont think that would get done intime for a sept league I want to get in . I figured at some point I would need to do that .

Post by **Bullseye** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:47 pm

No problem fitting a match bushing to that barrel. Many match barrels are flared at the end instead of tapered. I actually prefer them, less drag and wear on the bushing when the lockup is borken. Might I suggest considering a new match barrel/busing combination, rather than using a match bushing for that old Colt barrel. Makers like Kart, Wilson, or Bar-Sto are all good choices. If you've already got a good slide/frame fit then adding on a new barrel and bushing is not a very big job for a competent custom 1911 smith who has all the right fixtures and stones. It could easily be ready before Sept.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye

JimK · Post by **JimK** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:27 pm

Hi, SA, Kimber, etc are nice guns for sure, but I took a long shot after a heck of a lot of deliberation and bought a EAA Witness Elite Limited 9mm (Tanfoglio made in Italy) that I love. It's a whole lot of gun for the money and ready for IPSC comp if your interested without requiting any modifications to tune it up. I've put over 1k through it so far (It took 7 weeks to get and I finally got it in June) and it keeps getting better and better. The gun eats whatever I feed it without any problems what so ever and is the most accurate and well made guns I've owned. The mags hold 18 rounds and are two for $50 if you want a couple extra. Check it out! http://www.eaacorp.com/index.html
I shoot 9's because they're reasonably priced ($11 for a hundred round box of Fed's at Walmart) vs about twice that for 38,40 or 45's and I use it for personal defense because I feel confident in the gun doing what I ask of it.

Jim

Post by **Bullseye** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:49 pm

I'm familiar with that platform, used to be known as CZ-75 or TZ-75 back when IPSC was new and all the rage. Those are very reliable pistols and I'm sure you'll get everything you expected out of it.

R,
Bullseye

JimK · Post by **JimK** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:37 pm

Hey Bullseye, I've tossed in a couple pic's of my two favorite guns, but I have a question for you. Is there any arms manufacture producing modern 9mm Luger P08's? I would give anything to get my hands on something like that. My buddy has a couple his dad left him from WWII but he never shoots them. Just thought I would ask cause your really in tune with what's going on in the firearms department.
Jim

Post by **Bullseye** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:47 pm

Very nice looking pistols Jim!

The answer to your Luger question is - no. There are no current manufacturers making Luger pistols or reproductions. There was a company called Stoeger who did make them and they came to the US under several importers; Stoeger,Mitchell, Aimco, Orimar. Aimco and Orimar are the same company. Aimco changed its name to Orimar sometime around 2004. Stoeger owned the rights for the Luger design for a long time and eventually allowed Mitchell and Aimco to produce reproductions. The latest Lugers were stainless steel reproductions that came in 6" and 4" barrels. They were produced from 1993 to 2004/5.

R,
Bullseye

Thompson · Post by **Thompson** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:58 pm

I have an EAA Witness (steel frame) and it is a reliable pistol with good double action and a great single action trigger. Not much travel in single action mode compared to my S&W 5906. I think the EAA is a good bang for your dollars.

The are so many more pistol and revolver choices available today than when I started shooting in the early sixties that a decision can be really tough.

Good luck.

Post by **Bullseye** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:52 pm

I always liked the look of those Witness style pistols, very sleek and shapely.

R,
Bullseye

allendavis · Post by **allendavis** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:23 pm

Everyone else has had their say, and of course, I have to put in my two cents' worth.

[q]Hadn't thought much about 9 mm because the one Glock I fired and the Baretta P92 I shout a few years ago were not very impressive. While I was looking, the dealer told me I ought to look at the Hi-Point 9mm. Heck, for the price ($139) if I didn't like it, I wouldn't be out that much. An ex-seal was at the gun case and said he really liked the Hi-Point as a plinker. He also told me not to worry about the rattle when I shook it.[/q]

I wouldn't carry home a Beretta OR a Taurus clone of the 92 or any other model like it if you gave me a semi-trailer load of them for $10 each. They're crap. (C'mon, rain down the flames on me, I can take it!) Besides the Beretta 92s and clones are way TOO HUGE to carry concealed, even the chopped models. None of my friends will even allow Berettas in their homes.

The Hi-Points??? Heheheheheh. Excuse me while I clean up the puke from my excessive laughter. I allowed my son to have two of his buddies come to our private club, both carrying Hi-Points. One in 9mm, one in .45 ACP. These guns are heavy-weight clunkers. Boat anchors. And totally incapable of hitting a target at 25 yards.

I should also mention that these things are very, very prone to malfunctioning, regardless of the "rave reviews" they get in their advertising.

After about 150 rounds, the .45 version simply stopped going into battery after firing. Bumping was a joke. This kid was literally beating the slide into battery, while I cringed and crouched and shouted at him.

After 200 rounds, the 9mm version developed a suspicious crack in its massive frame. It did fare better in the reliability department, but both of these guns seem to weigh a ton, the sights suck eggs, the triggers are worse than bad, they suck great big green donkey dongs.

[q]Anyone have any strong feelings, positive or negative, about 9 mm in general or specific 9mm or any 45? Big blanket request, but without firing a few hundred rounds through a pistol, its hard to pickout good points and bad points.[/q]

I don't wear or carry a badge anymore, and didn't do that very long, but I've spent most of my life teaching others about firearms, and I have extremely strong opinions about handguns.

1. I do prefer the .45 ACP over everything. Period. And I prefer it in anything that is patterned after the Model 1911. Period.

This means I hate Glocks. I don't like Tupperware firearms. And to be more specific, I hate the Glock's "safety" system. It's no safety at all, and I've yet to see a Glock with a trigger pull I can use And I'm talking the pre-New York trigger.

I have a dozen friends who own different Glocks. I've shot them all. They are good guns. I just don't like them.

I'm 48 years old now and consider myself an old-timer. I cut my teeth on a 1911 in .45 ACP. Excuse me. But I can still out-shoot my whippersnapper friends with their newfangled plastic pistols at any range and in any caliber.

2. The 9mm. I used to make fun of this cartridge because it used to be a joke, but not any longer. I actually carry a 9mm almost half the time now, but only because I own a Hi-Power.

The Browning Hi-Power is the only 9mm pistol that fits my hand like a glove, and I can carry a full-size model under concealment with great ease, and I'm a very small-framed man. I only mass about 160-165 pounds and stand 5-feet, 10-inches.

I can carry more ammo with the 9mm and can put 2 shots on 3 targets at 7 yards in just a tad under 2 seconds. I can't do that with my 1911 in .45 ACP. It takes me almost one second more in time.

Just call me old-fashioned.

I don't even like the looks of the other newer pistols. I like the original CZ-75 pistols, on which the Bren Ten was based, but the "reversed rail" design would always confuse me.

I've owned 3-4 of Ruger's offerings, and I found them to be crap. Trigger improvement isn't impossible, but it's too damned expensive for what I regard as a cheap pistol

I owned a S&W 5906 that I was extremely fond of. This gun could shoot, and it had a damn good trigger in both modes. Unfortunately, it was stolen during a burglary, along with the rest of the firearms I owned at the time, and the insurance company wouldn't fully covered.

[Should we start a separate thread about insurance companies???????]

Sorry to be so long on this post.

Allen

greener · Post by **greener** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:57 pm

Allendavis: I agree with you on the 1911. At least for me, I can shoot any standard 1911 better than I can any 9mm I've fired. (The one exception was the 1911 I was assigned as a Bn Cdr, which was more accurate on an overhand throw than being fired before I convinced the armorer to do a bit of work.)

The Hi-Point problem, based on a couple of owners and their forum is they make lousy magazines. The problem disappears if you open the ears of the mag slightly, or so I'm told. I've fired a C9 and was neither impressed nor unimpressed with the accuracy at 25 yards. I've fired 10 rounds from a 5906 and on comparison, if I had a choice, I'd buy a Hi-point. The 5906 trigger in double action was terrible, it wasn't bad in single action after I figured out that I really wasn't pulling the trigger all the way back and their was nothing wrong with the pistol in single action. The fact that the owner asked me 5 or 6 times if the pistol jammed didn't leave me with any warm fuzzies. My guess is that I fired a really bad 5906.

allendavis · Post by **allendavis** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:01 pm

Allendavis: I agree with you on the 1911. At least for me, I can shoot any standard 1911 better than I can any 9mm I've fired. (The one exception was the 1911 I was assigned as a Bn Cdr, which was more accurate on an overhand throw than being fired before I convinced the armorer to do a bit of work.)

I've owned 5 and built 15 1911s in .45 ACP since I was about 17. Of those, only two were "store bought," meaning that I have some experience with John Moses Browning's greatest creation. It is the greatest handgun ever made in my opinion.

The Hi-Point problem, based on a couple of owners and their forum is they make lousy magazines. The problem disappears if you open the ears of the mag slightly, or so I'm told.

I couldn't detect any visual defects in their magazines, but I wasn't magnifying anything, either. The slides seemed to get sluggish after extensive firing.

Let me say this: if you're poor and don't have a lot of money to spend, then I'd say buy a Hi-Point, do some practice, then make sure you keep it clean.

I've fired a C9 and was neither impressed nor unimpressed with the accuracy at 25 yards.

4-inch groups at 25 yards fail to impress me, especially if you're shooting from a 22-pound sandbag rest.

I've fired 10 rounds from a 5906 and on comparison, if I had a choice, I'd buy a Hi-point.

Excuse me, I'm dizzy from my head spinning around like Linda Blair in that Exorcist movie! IT'S A G*****M SMITH & WESSON!!!!! IF there is a problem with the gun, they will fix it FREE OF CHARGE!!! Even an excessively heavy DA trigger pull!

The 5906 trigger in double action was terrible, it wasn't bad in single action after I figured out that I really wasn't pulling the trigger all the way back and their was nothing wrong with the pistol in single action. The fact that the owner asked me 5 or 6 times if the pistol jammed didn't leave me with any warm fuzzies. My guess is that I fired a really bad 5906.

I have yet to encouter a DA semi-auto I liked as well as I did that single 5906. The DA pull was excellent for a gun of its ilk, but it still sucked eggs like a blue-tick hound-dog.

My very first encounter with a DA semi-auto was with the S&W Model 39 that a cousin bought. That gun was awful on the DA pull (14 pound pull). SA was decent for that model, it was only 6 pounds.

I think this was 1980 when I played with that puppy the first time, but it might've been earlier.

I like SA semi-autos best. But everybody knows that about me here by now. If it isn't a 1911, give me a Hi-Power.

Allen

Bud33 · Post by **Bud33** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:07 am

Over the years that I shot Bullseye I went thru a lot of different guns but ended up with aThree gun box.
A Clark 22 Ruger, and a 1911 Mil Spec .45. that Was tuned by me, for Hardball and a 1911 Heavy Slide, also tuned by me for Wad-cutter.
At one point I did have a 1911 38 Super that was converted to 38 special by a smith named Giles. That was a sweet gun but meant I had to worry with one more gun.
When I look back at my scores over those years, I consistently shot 10 to 20 points higher with my 45 than any other gun.
I suppose part of that was because Uncle provided me with all the hardball I wanted and I spent the majority of time practicing with the hard ball gun with the intention of getting the little gold bobble you see in my avatar.
The most important thing I learned during those years was that all the gimmicks and gadgets, like Custom grips and muzzle breaks etc, can't make up for a lack of training, practice and conditioning.

greener · Post by **greener** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:06 am

allendavis: My observations on the C9 and 5906 are based on one magazine fired standing, no support. It had nothing to do with price of the weapon, just my impressions of the two pistols with me shooting them the first time. My opinions on the two pistiols might change after 500 rounds, but I doubt it.

allendavis · Post by **allendavis** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:01 pm

allendavis: My observations on the C9 and 5906 are based on one magazine fired standing, no support. It had nothing to do with price of the weapon, just my impressions of the two pistols with me shooting them the first time. My opinions on the two pistiols might change after 500 rounds, but I doubt it.

Fair enough, but I hate drawing any meaningful conclusions about any weapon without giving it a little more thorough shake-down.

As I said earlier, I never really cared for S&W's 39xx/59xx series pistols, but the one I had was a gem. It was a gift from a law enforcement friend and it had been completely gone over by a very gifted gunsmith.

I may be a dinosaur in many ways, but I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in owning a Glock, a Springfield XD or any other "new-fangled" pistol, and that includes the Sigs, the H&Ks, etc. I've shot bunches and bushels of many of these new breed of pistols, and to me, if it isn't a 1911 or a Hi-Power, I just can't seem to sit up on my hind legs and get very excited. Until I can lay hands on a genuine Star Trek phaser like Kirk and Spock used to pack, I'll just stick with my antiques.

I have to take that back. I would've been fairly interested in obtaining an H&K P9S in .45 ACP. A friend had one several years ago that I could shoot like nobody's business -- and it could be carried cocked-n-locked. But H&K discontinued it, and I've never seen a used one under a glass counter. Bummer.

Allen