Walther PPS

[smokey]

After much shopping around to find a handgun that my girlfriend was comfortable with, she decided on a Walther PPS. She is very petite with small hands and wanted an automatic. Anything with a double stack mag was out of the question. She fell in love with the PPS when she held one. However, after several months of looking we have not been able to find one. Has anyone else had any experience with this particular handgun? Is there maybe another handgun we should look at?

Thanks, Smokey

[greener]

I've fired a PPS once. Nice shooting pistol. Didn't fire enough rounds for full evaluation but it was easy to drop rounds in the target center at 8-10 yards. Overall, my impressions were very favorable. I've seen the PPS at the Richmond gun shows.

The Kel Tec PF9 or PF11 are alternatives to the PPS. Not nearly as pricey. Also not as nice as the PPS. I've fired a couple of Kel Tecs. They weren't bad, but not as good as the PPS. IIRC you feel the recoil more in the Kel Tec than the PPS.

If I were looking for a small, light carry weapon that I planned to shoot just often enough to maintain some familiarity and proficiency, I'd probably get the Kel Tec, just based on price. You might also want to look at some of the small .380's like the Ruger LCP, PPK, Kel Tec P3.

The other alternative is a snubbie revolver like the S&W Airweights (442 or 642). Small, easy to carry and very dependable. The downside to these is that the have a pretty stout trigger and can sting the hands a bit with good defensive rounds like Plus P's. I think the snubbies offer a wider range of ammo from softer target loads to Plus P's. Different models allow you to go to .357.

Almost none of the small pistol/revolvers are handguns you want to take to the range for a couple hundred rounds of fun range time. All are generally difficult to shoot with great accuracy because of size, weight and trigger. I have a 442 and like it as a light carry weapon.

[Bud33]

A few years back, I went looking for a PPK for a small defense weapon.
The clerk at the gun shop suggested I get the Sig 230 instead as it was more reliable.
I took his word for it and bought the 230 in .380. It was a terrific gun. It never had a jam of mis fire in the 3 years I kept it. It was very comfortable to shoot and had very good accuracy for the short barrel.

[smokey]

Thanks for the input. I have a Ruger LCP and she doesn't like to shoot it. It kind of jumps around in her hand. We looked at the Smith airweight but she really doesn't want a revolver. We narrowed it down to either a Kahr P9 or the Walther PPS. She likes the feel of the Walther better but they are scarce around here now. We found one in a gun show but it had a scratch on it and she wouldn't have it. I can't say that I blame her as much as it costs. Thanks again.

Smokey

[bearandoldman]

Thanks for the input. I have a Ruger LCP and she doesn't like to shoot it. It kind of jumps around in her hand.

Smokey

I have had a KelTec P3AT for some time4 now and it wil jump around a little especially if you one hand shoot it. As far as function though it is reliable, they are not a target gun for a 100 round shoot but they will do the job they were intended to. I carry mine as a backup to my SA Micro.
Remember that the quickest reload is another gun.

[smokey]

Thanks for the input. I have a Ruger LCP and she doesn't like to shoot it. It kind of jumps around in her hand.

Smokey

I have had a KelTec P3AT for some time4 now and it wil jump around a little especially if you one hand shoot it. As far as function though it is reliable, they are not a target gun for a 100 round shoot but they will do the job they were intended to. I carry mine as a backup to my SA Micro.
Remember that the quickest reload is another gun.

I couldn't agree more OM. I carry my LCP as a back up and many times in the summer when I am just wearing shorts and a t shirt. For serious business I usually carry a 45 Colt Combat Comander or my S&W M&P 40 compact. However, I am trying my best to find her something that she is comfortable with for concealed carry and to shoot frequently.

[Bullseye]

I have to second the Sig 230. She should give one a try, they're very comfortable to shoot for a smaller profile hand.

R,
Bullseye

[smokey]

I have to second the Sig 230. She should give one a try, they're very comfortable to shoot for a smaller profile hand.

R,
Bullseye

Thanks Bullseye, we'll take a look at that one.

[bearandoldman]

Thanks for the input. I have a Ruger LCP and she doesn't like to shoot it. It kind of jumps around in her hand.

Smokey

I have had a KelTec P3AT for some time4 now and it wil jump around a little especially if you one hand shoot it. As far as function though it is reliable, they are not a target gun for a 100 round shoot but they will do the job they were intended to. I carry mine as a backup to my SA Micro.
Remember that the quickest reload is another gun.

I couldn't agree more OM. I carry my LCP as a back up and many times in the summer when I am just wearing shorts and a t shirt. For serious business I usually carry a 45 Colt Combat Comander or my S&W M&P 40 compact. However, I am trying my best to find her something that she is comfortable with for concealed carry and to shoot frequently.

You carry about the same as I, my main in a right hip pocket holster either an SA Micro or an SA V-10. The Micro is aluminum frame and 2# loaded and the V-10 weighs 2-1/2@, left side somewhere and this varies is the Kel Tec. My 1911's are a little smaller than your Combat Commander.

[Hi Ball]

Smokey......Today we ran tests for the purpose of showing some people just what can a .380-auto do as a defense weapon. Well, it showed me that it will penetrate enough to go through a Mugger's Skull at close range.

We ran tests today using "defense ammo" and Cor-Bon was tops in our wet newspaper test. Bundles of newspaper banded together with duct tape and soaked for 36 hours in a 55gal drum of water.

Ammo tested was Cor-Bon and Hornady Defense ammo.

Calibers tested were the .380-auto, 9mm, .40 S&W and 45acp.

Pistols tested were Ruger LCP, Sig P-232, in .380-auto, Browning High Power in 9mm and Kimber Carry in 45acp caliber.

All pistols were fired at 6 feet from the designated target. Our Chrony shot craps today or I would furnish the velocity report but that will come another time....sorry!

The .380-auto penetrated a total distance of 4.75 inches deep 90grn.JHP
advertised velocity is 1050fps


The 9mm penetrated a total distance of 5.75 inches deep, 125 grn bullet JHP

The 40 S&W penetrated a total distance of 6.85 inches deep 140 grn bullet DPX Cor-Bon JHP. Advertised velocity was 1285fps.

The 45acp penetrated a total distance of 6.65 inches deep 200grn.
advertised velocity is 1050fps.

The Cor-Bon ammo gave a very uniform picture perfect mushrooming of every bullet fired! I was somewhat impressed with the results of the Cor-Bon ammo.

The Hornady Defense ammo came in 2nd place, being a hair less (1/2 to 5/8 inch less) in penetration. We did not have the brand Pow'R Ball ammo in all caibers nor were we able to purchase Speer Gold Dot ammo in all calibers listed above, so we chose not to enter them officially in this test. We did however shoot a couple of various pistols that we had ammo for but not enough to complete the test properly.

Pow'R Ball ammo was impressive at hitting the wet newspaper, giving more muzzle blast and put .45 diameter size entry wounds but it's bullet fragged apart as it penetrated along the route of travel. It also penetrated an inch less than Cor-Bon or Hornady ammo. Advertised velocity was 1325fps Caliber being the 40 S&W!!!

We were also impressed with the Cor-Bon 45acp caliber ammo, using Barnes bullets. The bullets all mushroomed out with all petals in tact! A larger than average wound channel was made, it shreded a very large channel hole into the paper.

I know that results of other tests made into "geletin blocks" give impressive numbers to penetration but I knew the wet newspaper would be a tuff test on any bullets fired. Experts say that a defense weapon should penetrate it's bullets at least 12 inches deep into test media, that being a geletin block. 12 inches being what it takes to go past the vitals in a human torso! This 12 inches is what an average male weighing 175 lbs would be through the upper chest area front to back.

I have seen numbers of 15 and as high as 17 inches using a 40 S&W caliber and 9mm Sig caliber bullet but that is a little hard to swallow for this old timer. Clothing will also effect a bullets penetration a bunch! However, I am satisfied that if someone wants the best Defense ammo for their carry gun or stay at home pistol, the Cor-Bon gets my vote.

Hornady had two mis-fires today using their .380 auto ammo. Now primers on these cartridges were struck hard and dented! We re-an them through both Ruger and Sig pistols again but still they did not go BANG!

We will run more tests later with "Full Metal Jackets" and other various Defense Ammo, when we can get ALL calibers in various Brands of ammo in order to compare apples to apples. I will have a new Chrony to run velocity's also.

[Hi Ball]

Smokey the wife has a Sig P-232 in .380-auto, also the Ruger LCP which she likes because of ease of carry being warm weather nowdays. I would like her to carry the Sig P-239 in 40-S&W but it is a larger pistol but a stopper in my eyes.

I have NEVER been impressed with the .380-auto but today, using Cor-Bon ammo in her pistols It opened up a new door perhaps. I am still going to get her a Kahr in 9mm because I know it is 30% more in energy and penetration. I'll carry the Sig P-232 as back up perhaps, who knows.

I think the Ruger LCP is going to be traded for some good Cor-Bon shortly! The quaility between it and the Sig is night and day simply put.

[FourCornerm'n]

The appraisals here of the Sig 230 will have me looking at it. I've had a Walther PP in .380 ACP for more than 20 years. Remarkable gun. Very accurate. I haven't shot it enough and now wish I'd gotten the .22 cal. version. I could shoot more, and because a friend has convinced me that the ease of use and the penetration of hyper velocity .22's make it a good defensive choice. Also the low cost ammo allowing more practice. Trouble is I can't find one and probably could no longer afford it. Also the use of hyper-velocity .22 ammo for defense might cause malfunctions, as it does in some Rugers. Would need to be checked out.

The Walther PP - same as PPS, just a little longer - has tiny sights, and the slide bites the shooting hand, painfully at times. But it breaks down so easily, without even having to look at it, that you can bring it in that condition to a social gathering and not be afoul of the law. (???). That's a main reason I bought it. Several succeeding girl friends eventually agreed to take the slide in their purse into the movie, or wherever. Larger gun now in its place, defensively, that is.

Good luck, whatever your choice.

[smokey]

Smokey......Today we ran tests for the purpose of showing some people just what can a .380-auto do as a defense weapon. Well, it showed me that it will penetrate enough to go through a Mugger's Skull at close range.

We ran tests today using "defense ammo" and Cor-Bon was tops in our wet newspaper test. Bundles of newspaper banded together with duct tape and soaked for 36 hours in a 55gal drum of water.

Ammo tested was Cor-Bon and Hornady Defense ammo.

Calibers tested were the .380-auto, 9mm, .40 S&W and 45acp.

Pistols tested were Ruger LCP, Sig P-232, in .380-auto, Browning High Power in 9mm and Kimber Carry in 45acp caliber.

All pistols were fired at 6 feet from the designated target. Our Chrony shot craps today or I would furnish the velocity report but that will come another time....sorry!

The .380-auto penetrated a total distance of 4.75 inches deep 90grn.JHP
advertised velocity is 1050fps


The 9mm penetrated a total distance of 5.75 inches deep, 125 grn bullet JHP

The 40 S&W penetrated a total distance of 6.85 inches deep 140 grn bullet DPX Cor-Bon JHP. Advertised velocity was 1285fps.

The 45acp penetrated a total distance of 6.65 inches deep 200grn.
advertised velocity is 1050fps.

The Cor-Bon ammo gave a very uniform picture perfect mushrooming of every bullet fired! I was somewhat impressed with the results of the Cor-Bon ammo.

The Hornady Defense ammo came in 2nd place, being a hair less (1/2 to 5/8 inch less) in penetration. We did not have the brand Pow'R Ball ammo in all caibers nor were we able to purchase Speer Gold Dot ammo in all calibers listed above, so we chose not to enter them officially in this test. We did however shoot a couple of various pistols that we had ammo for but not enough to complete the test properly.

Pow'R Ball ammo was impressive at hitting the wet newspaper, giving more muzzle blast and put .45 diameter size entry wounds but it's bullet fragged apart as it penetrated along the route of travel. It also penetrated an inch less than Cor-Bon or Hornady ammo. Advertised velocity was 1325fps Caliber being the 40 S&W!!!

We were also impressed with the Cor-Bon 45acp caliber ammo, using Barnes bullets. The bullets all mushroomed out with all petals in tact! A larger than average wound channel was made, it shreded a very large channel hole into the paper.

I know that results of other tests made into "geletin blocks" give impressive numbers to penetration but I knew the wet newspaper would be a tuff test on any bullets fired. Experts say that a defense weapon should penetrate it's bullets at least 12 inches deep into test media, that being a geletin block. 12 inches being what it takes to go past the vitals in a human torso! This 12 inches is what an average male weighing 175 lbs would be through the upper chest area front to back.

I have seen numbers of 15 and as high as 17 inches using a 40 S&W caliber and 9mm Sig caliber bullet but that is a little hard to swallow for this old timer. Clothing will also effect a bullets penetration a bunch! However, I am satisfied that if someone wants the best Defense ammo for their carry gun or stay at home pistol, the Cor-Bon gets my vote.

Hornady had two mis-fires today using their .380 auto ammo. Now primers on these cartridges were struck hard and dented! We re-an them through both Ruger and Sig pistols again but still they did not go BANG!

We will run more tests later with "Full Metal Jackets" and other various Defense Ammo, when we can get ALL calibers in various Brands of ammo in order to compare apples to apples. I will have a new Chrony to run velocity's also.

That is very interesting. I am not surprised at the results of the Cor-Bon bullets. I have heard very good things about them. Did you happen to test any Federal Hydra-Shocks? That is what I usually carry. They are a little easier to find around here than the Cor-Bon. Thanks for sharing the information. Technology in the smaller rounds have definitely opened new doors for defense carry. Myself, I still prefer bigger but do carry a 380 LCP quite often because it is convenient. By the way, we did finally find the girlfriend a Walther PPS 9 mm.

[Hi Ball]

Smokey today we found a Walther in 9mm and a Kel-Tec 11 in a 9mm and the Ruger LCP is no longer with us, as it got traded down the road. My wife liked the feel of the Kel-Tec 9mm even though it has a 10 stacked magazine. It was also a little smaller than the Walther PP in 9mm. I myself liked the looks of the Walther PP much better but it was not my call. The impressive thing about the .380-auto verses the 9mm Para. is the extra 200 lbs of energy the 9mm Para. has over the .380-auto. Now that is one BIG PLUS in my book as a CCW pistol.

[Hi Ball]

Smokey I am still looking for the Kahr in 9mm but have not yet be able to locate any of them new in the box. I have another .380-auto that is going down the road as soon as I locate one of these. I wish Sig Sauer would make a small sub-compact in the 9mm.

I finally got my hands on a Sig P-238 (.380-auto) this afternoon, it was small but "no cigar" for this guy as I want a 9mm in a sub-compact. I figure I'll just sit back and wait, sooner or later one will show up to purchase.