.45 cal 1911

markIIIronp · Post by **markIIIronp** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:37 pm

I would like to get a .45 cal 1911 to use in Bullseye shooting. Does a guy just buy a decent 1911 and have a gunsmith accurize it or do you go to the gunsmith to buy a pistol he has already accurized? How much of a tighter group does an accurized 1911 shoot compared to a quality 1911 that has not been accurized?

Post by **Bullseye** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:21 pm

You can go either way for a match quality 1911. If you want to buy a complete pistol one like a Les Baer is a good purchase. If you want one built then a frame and slide combo, like a Caspian, is a good investment to have built into a great match pistol, or even picking up a Springfield Milspec and then having it gutted and rebuilt. A good match pistol from a quality smith will give you 1.5 to 2" at 50 yards accuracy. A rack grade pistol is typically good for 3 to 5 inches at 25 yards.

R,
Bullseye

markIIIronp · Post by **markIIIronp** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:51 am

Thank you Bullseye. You always have the knowledge to lead me in the right direction. I am always amazed by the amount of good info that I get from you and I fully trust that you completely know what you are talking about. I am thankful to have access to someone as knowledgable and helpful as you are! Thanks again.

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:31 pm

Keep this fact in mind at all times, It's not the problem with the shooter but the problem with the shooter.

Max It · Post by **Max It** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:45 pm

hi Guys,

You know I have been thinking about the same thing: buy a 1911. So I logged on with that thought and saw this thread.
However- I am not doing competition, I have a SD gun, I am not flush with money, I just want one. Target shooting, maybe get outdoors a bit and shoot at stuff, mostly plinking with my .22's. I have a MKIII 22/45 and I am getting better at it, but nothing to brag about. So that brings me back to what 1911, if any? I have talked to one Armorer about Rock Island, Armscorp made in the Philippines. Cost is a modest $400. and I have seen others in the $500 range. I think I prefer cheap new rather than good old. As 'good old 'might be good it also could have many problems I am not familiar with. Especially after reading Sweeney's Gunsmithing book. Any suggestions?

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:51 pm

Max It, I do not really know anything about the quality of those Philippine made pistols. Go with a Taurus or a Springfield Armory gun and you should have no problems. The Sa Mil Spec guns are reasonable and good quality and so is the Taurus.

stork · Post by **stork** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:18 pm

bearandoldman is right on the money.
The Springfield Milspec's are some of the tightest inexpensive 1911's on the market. I work part time in a local gun store. Last summer they had about a dozen Springfield Milspec's in stock. I examined them and found 5 of them to be the tightest factory fitted 1911's I have EVER seen. that also includes all the Wilson's and Kimber's they also had in stock. 4 of those 5 had NO-ZERO-NONE play in the slide to frame fit. The lugs were perfectly fitted to the slide stop. And, there was very little movement in the barrel-bushing- slide fit. I showed one of them to my gunsmith (he builds ALL my 45's) who happened to stop in and he was astonished. He built a wad gun out of one of these for another friend of mine and all he did was polish the feed ramp a little and properly fitted a new bushing.

In contrast, we just got in one of the new Colt series 70's 1911's. It was the lousiest fitting job I have ever seen on a 1911. I can't understand how they can command their price for such shoddy workmanship.

FWIW

greener · Post by **greener** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:28 pm

Bullseye wrote:You can go either way for a match quality 1911. If you want to buy a complete pistol one like a Les Baer is a good purchase. If you want one built then a frame and slide combo, like a Caspian, is a good investment to have built into a great match pistol, or even picking up a Springfield Milspec and then having it gutted and rebuilt. A good match pistol from a quality smith will give you 1.5 to 2" at 50 yards accuracy. A rack grade pistol is typically good for 3 to 5 inches at 25 yards.

R,
Bullseye

If you buy the Les Baer, how much additional tweaking and tuning is needed? Do you end up with better/cost performance by going the route of buying gun with a good frame and then having a good smith do his magic? Not that I'll ever know, I can't afford the shooter upgrade.

greener · Post by **greener** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:34 pm

Max It wrote:hi Guys,

You know I have been thinking about the same thing: buy a 1911. So I logged on with that thought and saw this thread.
However- I am not doing competition, I have a SD gun, I am not flush with money, I just want one. Target shooting, maybe get outdoors a bit and shoot at stuff, mostly plinking with my .22's. I have a MKIII 22/45 and I am getting better at it, but nothing to brag about. So that brings me back to what 1911, if any? I have talked to one Armorer about Rock Island, Armscorp made in the Philippines. Cost is a modest $400. and I have seen others in the $500 range. I think I prefer cheap new rather than good old. As 'good old 'might be good it also could have many problems I am not familiar with. Especially after reading Sweeney's Gunsmithing book. Any suggestions?

I've fired one of the Phillipine 1911's, whose owner had started upgrading. Wasn't bad. I've seen them for $320-$400 and have toyed with the idea of buying a project 1911. For a bit more than I've got in my Taurus, I'd end up with a 1911 that didn't have the features. I thing the Springfield or Taurus are pretty good low end 1911's and the upgrade bucks just might put you a lot farther along than with the Phillipine guns.

stork · Post by **stork** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:59 pm

Greener,
With either a Les Baer or Rock River (NOT ROCK ISLAND) bullseye gun, any shot out of the 1 1/2" x ring at 50 yards will be the shooter or the ammo, not the gun. Either of those 2 could be taken to the line at Camp Perry and WIN.

FWIW

Post by **Bullseye** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:19 pm

Unfortunately, Rock River is going out of the 1911 match gun business once their current production run is exhausted. Their frame and slide supplier has changed their production process and is not up to the quality they like for building match guns. I can sympathize with Chuck, trying to take a poorly made frame and slide and fit them takes a huge amount of time and may not yield the desired results. This means Les Baer is going to have a bigger backlog for their match pistols.

R,
Bullseye

markIIIronp · Post by **markIIIronp** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:29 pm

stork wrote:bearandoldman is right on the money.
The Springfield Milspec's are some of the tightest inexpensive 1911's on the market. I work part time in a local gun store. Last summer they had about a dozen Springfield Milspec's in stock. I examined them and found 5 of them to be the tightest factory fitted 1911's I have EVER seen. that also includes all the Wilson's and Kimber's they also had in stock. 4 of those 5 had NO-ZERO-NONE play in the slide to frame fit. The lugs were perfectly fitted to the slide stop. And, there was very little movement in the barrel-bushing- slide fit. I showed one of them to my gunsmith (he builds ALL my 45's) who happened to stop in and he was astonished. He built a wad gun out of one of these for another friend of mine and all he did was polish the feed ramp a little and properly fitted a new bushing.

In contrast, we just got in one of the new Colt series 70's 1911's. It was the lousiest fitting job I have ever seen on a 1911. I can't understand how they can command their price for such shoddy workmanship.

FWIW

Looks like I should look at a Springfield Milspec. My gunsmith may be able to accurize it in less time/money.

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