CCI vs Winchester Primers

[greener]

I've bought primers in 1000 (10 100-pack) boxes until my last buy. My favorite gun/tackle shop was allocating 500 per customer. It doesn't take long for primers to evaporate.

The small pistol (CCI 500) and large pistol (CCI 300) primers are intended for most magnum loads and probably should always be used for flake powders. I believe the magnum primers are for magnum loads with ball powders, especially at very cold temperatures. Ball powders are harder to ignite than flake powders. Magnum primers with flake powders supposedly push the pressure spike higher, something you probably wouldn't want to do with a powder like Bullseye and a "hot" load. The only magnums I've loaded are .357 and the standard primers work well with any powder I've used.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/primers.htm

[greener]

My Winchester primer saga got better and then I went back into tipping primers in the Lee Pro. I did a number of things such as dissemble carriers and thoroughly clean them, replace the nylon gears and other "fixes." I'd get a series of easier loads and then back to the tipping problem. Didn't matter which carrier or caliber. CCI primers give me few, if any problems. Last week, I emailed Lee and asked if other folks were reporting similar problems. They responded that they had had some reports and offered some suggestions. Over several emails I tried or said that I was already doing that. Today's response was

Bob,
Sure sounds like it's the Winchester primers. I don't know why they hang up on you.
If you figure it out, let me know.

Shoot Straight,
Bill

They never answered if another press like the Loadmaster would be better.

Looks like I may be in the market for another press.

[bearandoldman]

Rob, I use Winchester primers and the Lee hand tool, just like me. Old and slow but it works.

[blue68f100]

I have had no problems with WW, Fed, Rem or CCI. I generally buy what is cheapest, but I put Fed on the bottom of the list. I do not like the way they are packaged, a PITA to load in to primer trays. My last buy was SP CCI's for $19.61/k, I bought these (10k) before every thing went nuts.

[greener]

I have to give Lee high marks for response time and effort, even if they didn't have the magic words to solve my problem. The responses have some pretty good tips on operating the Pro 1000 primer.

07-21-09

Bob,
We have heard about some problems with Winchester primers that are brass, no plating.
Here is a suggestion I can offer.
Priming on the Pro-1000

The trick on the Pro-1000 priming system is to learn to develop a "feel" through the press lever. By now you can probably tell when a primer seats correctly and when one doesn't. If it doesn't feel like a primer seated correctly, STOP and pull the case out! You don't want to run a case without a primer up into the powder through expander die, because it will drop a powder charge into the case (with a hole in the bottom) and powder will leak out into the primer feed, causing problems until you clean out the spilled powder.
When operating the Pro-1000, learn to slow down as you swing the lever up to the top of its stroke. As you swing the lever up, the shellplate rotates 1/3 turn, the case trips the case sensor allowing a primer to slide onto the primer pin, and at the very end of the
stroke the primer pin pushes the primer into the case. If you swing the lever too fast, all this happens too quickly and you will frequently get tipped primers (because the case and/or primer are not in line). Slow down a little and when you hear the "click" as the
shellplate snaps into position, hesitate for just a second, and then follow through with a firm push on the press lever. This slight hesitation allows time for the primer to slide on top of the pin, and the case to come to rest over the primer pin before being pushed up
into the primer pocket. With practice you will be able to feel through the press lever what it feels like when a primer starts into the case correctly, and when it doesn't, and will be able to take corrective steps before you get incorrectly primed cases. Often just
backing up slightly (push the lever back down just a little) and then taking another swing will correct the problem and the primer will seat correctly.

Hope this helps,
Bill
Tech Service

07-22-09

Bob,
The most common problem for tipping primers is that the priming pin, when released by the cartridge sensor, does not bottom in the primer pin hole. Usually because some small obstruction is holding it up.
Spinning the pin may help. Try it without a case. Trip the case sensor by hand to drop the pin down. A primer should slide down over the primer pin. A clean dry trough should work best.

There should be a pin in the side of the trough. This should be in contact with the right rear press column.
The groves in the column should cause the primer trough to vibrate. This helps the primers to feed down the trough. The trough needs to be full of primers to reliably feed.


Hope this helps,
Bill
Tech Service

[greener]

Rob, I use Winchester primers and the Lee hand tool, just like me. Old and slow but it works.

I like the high speed, low drag mode of a progressive press. You know how us kids are.

My last buy was SP CCI's for $19.61/k, I bought these (10k) before every thing went nuts.

Don't remember seeing them that low since I started reloading. I always thought a box of 1000 and part of another box was all I needed to stock because there were always plenty. Hindsight is always 20-10.

[bearandoldman]

Rob, I use Winchester primers and the Lee hand tool, just like me. Old and slow but it works.

I like the high speed, low drag mode of a progressive press. You know how us kids are.

My last buy was SP CCI's for $19.61/k, I bought these (10k) before every thing went nuts.

Don't remember seeing them that low since I started reloading. I always thought a box of 1000 and part of another box was all I needed to stock because there were always plenty. Hindsight is always 20-10.

Life was a lot simpler when all we had were flintlocks.

[Hakaman]

hmmmmmmmmmmm? I bet any reloader here would probably settler for Walmat primers at this point.

[greener]

Rob, I use Winchester primers and the Lee hand tool, just like me. Old and slow but it works.

I like the high speed, low drag mode of a progressive press. You know how us kids are.

My last buy was SP CCI's for $19.61/k, I bought these (10k) before every thing went nuts.

Don't remember seeing them that low since I started reloading. I always thought a box of 1000 and part of another box was all I needed to stock because there were always plenty. Hindsight is always 20-10.

Life was a lot simpler when all we had were flintlocks.

Flint Shortage

[bearandoldman]

[q

Don't remember seeing them that low since I started reloading. I always thought a box of 1000 and part of another box was all I needed to stock because there were always plenty. Hindsight is always 20-10.

Life was a lot simpler when all we had were flintlocks.[/quote]

Flint Shortage[/quote]

No problem findig Flint, I just get on I-75 South and about 30 miles later I am there, another 60 and I can be in Hakamans territory.

[greener]

hmmmmmmmmmmm? I bet any reloader here would probably settler for Walmat primers at this point.

Limit six per customer.

[blue68f100]

Natchez Shooting Supplies put the CCI primers on sell in Sept/Oct of 2008. At $19.61/k I could not pass them up. I ordered a 8# jug of WW231 for $96 at the same time. That way the $20 HAZMAT fee was not bad. I have been using them sparingly, cut back on my shooting to 1 box a month vs 4 boxes on 9mm. Last summer I shot over 5k rounds, I'm not going to do that this year. Not till the supplies chains get straighten out. But shooting that many rounds I got very good.

I' think those days are gone till people stop the hording and all the supplies chains are full. Then maybe the price will come back down to normal.

[greener]

Natchez Shooting Supplies put the CCI primers on sell in Sept/Oct of 2008. At $19.61/k I could not pass them up. I ordered a 8# jug of WW231 for $96 at the same time. That way the $20 HAZMAT fee was not bad. I have been using them sparingly, cut back on my shooting to 1 box a month vs 4 boxes on 9mm. Last summer I shot over 5k rounds, I'm not going to do that this year. Not till the supplies chains get straighten out. But shooting that many rounds I got very good.

I' think those days are gone till people stop the hording and all the supplies chains are full. Then maybe the price will come back down to normal.

I think I'll start browsing there and other places. Been relying on local buys for reloading.

Replaced the carrier tonight for .45 Colt. The Win large pistol primers started tipping early. Think I have it figured out. Just before the case gets to the primer seating position, tap the primer tray to ensure the primers move in the feed trough.

[John fox]

I've used CCI primers for almost 30 years without any problems.

[Georgezilla]

I have had no problems with WW, Fed, Rem or CCI. I generally buy what is cheapest, but I put Fed on the bottom of the list. I do not like the way they are packaged, a PITA to load in to primer trays. My last buy was SP CCI's for $19.61/k, I bought these (10k) before every thing went nuts.

I concur; however, Federal is still my preferred brand.

Natchez Shooting Supplies put the CCI primers on sell in Sept/Oct of 2008. At $19.61/k I could not pass them up. I ordered a 8# jug of WW231 for $96 at the same time. That way the $20 HAZMAT fee was not bad. I have been using them sparingly, cut back on my shooting to 1 box a month vs 4 boxes on 9mm. Last summer I shot over 5k rounds, I'm not going to do that this year. Not till the supplies chains get straighten out. But shooting that many rounds I got very good.

I' think those days are gone till people stop the hording and all the supplies chains are full. Then maybe the price will come back down to normal.

I have also had to cut back on my shooting. I think it may have helped me progress a bit, I appreciate each round a lot more than I did a year ago

I've also had to cut back inviting people to come out to the range