1911 Frame for conversion

Blazer · Post by **Blazer** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:13 pm

Hey Bullseye,
How about some advice on a 1911 frame for conversion to 22LR?The guys at my club have suggested I build my own 1911 conversion. I can't seem to get my S&W 41 to feel right in my hand. The damn trigger is just back to far in the guard for my hand. I tried the Herret grips you suggested and a few others from friends and still I shake BAD when I try to press the trigger, because I can't seem to control my finger when it so close to the rest of my hand. If I hold the gun up without my finger in the trigger guard I can hold very steady. This morning at our league I put my second joint of my finger on the trigger and actually shot better! So if you were to build a 22 conversion from the bottom up, what would you use. One of the very good distinguished level shooter at the club suggested a RRA frame and a Marvel conversion, but I didn't have time to ask about internal parts and how to get it built. I seem to be able to shoot my own Spring. 1911 45 cal much better than the 41.The 1911 frame seems to be a natural for my grip. I was invited to shoot his set up during the coming week, can't wait. Does the RRA build the frame and internals with the parts I would want? I figure the money will be well spent so I want to use all the right stuff, without getting all the bells and whistles I really don't need. What parts will I need for a good bullseye gun? Trigger, beaver tail, springs, etc? I know it's a long list of info, but I want to do it right the first time.

Thanks, Blazer

Post by **Bullseye** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:57 pm

The frame isn't as important as the internals that go into it. A cheap frame, worked properly, can be just as effective as an expensive one. I believe that you have to use a dedicated frame for this conversion kit if you want to take advantage of its accuracy. Swapping the kit from frame to frame doesn't lend itself to promoting accuracy or consistency. Having a dedicated frame also means having the hammer and sear tuned to a very lightweight condition, one at a level that would never be safe for shooting the 45ACP cartridge.

Then the next question I have is what type of Bullseye gun do you want, one set up with iron sights or one set up for optics? Both conversion kits force you to choose between one configuration or the other. Neither is set up for dual sighting systems as an "all-in-one" unit.

There are several 1911 conversion kits out on the market. The two top ones are the Marvel and the Advantage Arms, which recently Bob Marvel has been involved with AA in a redesign of their conversion kit. Both conversion kits are quality products with accurate match barrels. The Advantage Arms kit has a last shot hold open feature, a change from the earlier Marvel Inc. design.

The good news for someone with your problem is you can have it set up with either a long trigger or a shorter one, based on your particular hand size. The other frame customizations are up to your particular desires and preferences. The bottom line is you'll shoot better with whatever you're most comfortable with in a match 22 pistol.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye

Blazer · Post by **Blazer** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:34 pm

Thanks Bullseye!

Yes this gun will be designated just for 22LR, and I will use a scope. Can you make me a checklist of parts to purchase? I know I want a beavertail, stock style rubber grips,good trigger, etc. But I'm new to this bullseye shooting and don't know the best brands or styles to research.

Searching for help, Blazer

wlambert · Post by **wlambert** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:53 pm

I think I am shooting what you are looking for. Marvel Conversion on a Rock River lower, with a Rock River steel scope mount, with a 30mm Ultra dot.

I bought the completed lower from Rock River. Not cheap, but then good things never are. I also bought the steel scope base from them. I don't know if it is on their web site yet, but it is available if you ask for it. The Marvel comes with a aluminum base. The steel base gives some extra weight.

I have Hoague grips on my Marvel and .45 which is also a Rock River.

My Marvel needed some work to be reliable. Rock River upped the main spring to 23 lbs. and lowered the return spring to 14 lbs. Now it is very reliable.

It is also very accurate. I haven't shot it with the Ransom Rest yet, but it will hold the X ring at 25 yards, and that is with the cheap white box stuff from the CMP.

All in all, an excellent pistol.

wlambert

Blazer · Post by **Blazer** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:51 pm

That's exactly what I'm talking about! Thanks for the help. I'll let you know how it all works out

Blazer

Post by **Bullseye** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:41 pm

Blazer,

Sounds like you've got a line on something that you're interested in for your lower receiver.

My suggestions would all have been in line for building up a lower from scratch. Then the parts would be as you need for your pistol. Little things like do you prefer a flat mainspring housing or an arched one? What kind of thumb safety do you want? (Extended or GI style) What kind of Frame finish? Stainless, Blued, or Parkerized? Parkerized is the easiest finish to apply and most gunsmiths can bead blast the frame and apply it in house. What style grips? If you were going to use a wrap-around style like Pachmayr grips then you wouldn't want the frame checkered or stippled since the grips already have rubberized checkering built into them. Then we would have looked at a long trigger, Videki or Swenson three hole would have worked for your situation. Many of these questions would be asked by whoever is building your pistol receiver for you.

Many of the Marvel 22 conversion kits have experienced initial difficulties and typically need some breaking in. Rather than upping the mainspring pressure to avoid light hits on the Unit 1 conversions, I remove 1 1/2 turns off of the Marvel's firing pin return spring. Once you get the conversion kit tuned in they work great. I also find that the Marvel spring guide lock down screw tends to loosen with time and I Locktite them with blue #242 each time I tear them down.

This is the Unit one with iron adjustable sights. You can also order them with a scope rib or order the kit with both ribs. The ribs are easy to change but must have the mounting screws Locktited in place to operate properly.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye

Blazer · Post by **Blazer** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:16 am

Would I be better off buying a used 1911 and tuning it up then adding the conversion? I saw a couple nice used guns at my local dealer in the 500 to 600 dollars range. The RRA lower is almost 800, but I guess all the work has already been done. I'm going tonight to try out a conversion at the club.

Thanks for all the help! Blazer

Post by **Bullseye** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:44 am

Buying a used pistol and having the hammer and sear tuned to 2 pounds is a viable option for your frame. The conversion kit is going to run you $350-$400 for it and a spare magazine. Add in a quality optic sight and there's another $200 on top of all the other costs.

R,
Bullseye

Blazer · Post by **Blazer** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:13 pm

I was at the gun shop today on the way home looking for a used 1911. The guy behind the counter showed me his Kimber rimfire super when we started talking about my conversion idea. He told me this model is made in the Kimber custom shop and all the fine tuning is already done. I really liked the looks and feel of this gun. He told me he could order me one for $900, that didn't sound bad at all. I was told each gun comes with a test fire target, and each gun is guaranteed to shoot 1 1/2" groups. Although his came with a target with a 1/2" group. Do any of you own or have an opinion on the Kimber rimfire?

As always thanks for the help!!! There's nothing like experience when searching for the right answer.

Blazer

PS. What is a fair asking price when I end up selling my S&W 41 w/Leupold cross hair optics? Great condition, bought in the early 1980's

madcratebuilder · Post by **madcratebuilder** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:44 pm

There are some amazing cheap 1911 slides and cast frames in the new issue of shotgun news. I'm thinking .22 also.

Post by **Bullseye** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:48 pm

Some of those "cheapies" have plenty of tolerance issues. I've had plenty of folks bring me Essex, or Brazilian cast frames and want a ball gun or a wad gun built out of it. I've done it, but no two of these frames are made to the same specifications. The last one had serious frame pin hole variations and took some real time to get the disconnector and sear to operate properly. Not to mention a poorly cast frame that cracks under the stress of normal operation. I will add that my present dedicated 22 Marvel conversion frame is an Essex frame that took some time and machining to bring back into tolerances. Since the barrel of the Marvel is essentially locked to the frame, accuracy is not really effected by a lower quality frame, as long as the trigger operation is smooth and consistent.

R,
Bullseye

ekaphoto · Post by **ekaphoto** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:34 pm

To make a suggestion, why not get a Ruger 22/45 and work it over. Less expensive in the long run and you still get the 45 angle. just a thought. On the other hand I am not sure if the accuracy can be brought up to your standards, bullseye would know better than I. I am thinking for $1300 you could buils a very nice ruger with money left over.

Blazer · Post by **Blazer** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:49 am

Thanks for all the help

I still have not made up my mind.............

I guess guns are like girls.....When you hold the right one in your hand you'll know

Blazer