Priming Tools

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toyfj40
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Priming Tools

Post by toyfj40 » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:09 pm

I've done "some" reloading for well over a year now.
Not consistently (other things in life jerk me around).

I am beginning my second-round of equipment/dies, as
I learn that the 'Lee' items are good and get the job done,
there are some aspects that I just want to be better...

to get to the point. I've had the Lee-Auto-Prime little
hand-Primer-Inserter gizmo and got along with it just fine.
It did seem to be a little more of a toy than a quality/precise
Primer-Handler... so.. I asked around and got the RCBS
'Universal' unit
(ie. No shellholders, it has spring-things that
grab any-caliber)... a nice-feeling-unit... BUT the tray keeps
falling out... I tried to prime about 100 .223 last night and
I'll bet I picked up over 100 primers (ie. some more than once)
as the tray has no retainer/tension to hold it in place...

I've been examining some 'bench primers' (Forster, RCBS ).
so... I don't expect to load ammo for the Army, just my
own enjoyment... but who has what recommendations/why ?

are the Tube-Feed models an improvement/detriment for Primer-Handling ?

I'm about to decide to just get a second 'Lee' (one for Small & one for Large)
... why pay more for a different set of frustrations...
I guess none will be 'perfect'... but I can seek...
Thanks.

I'm also considering getting the Hornady-Powder dispenser
with the stand, Micro-Rifle, etc...
any comments on Powder-Measurement 'by volume' equipment?

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Post by bearandoldman » Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:57 pm

Hey Tex, simple and cheap, sometimes do come out on top. I use the same tool as it comes with 2 trays, sine for large and one for small primer and I have 2 shell holders also, one each for .45ACP and one for .38/.357. Talk to a lot of guys at the local shop and they all reload and all prefer the hand primer over others. Unless you hove a fully automated unit like a Dillon and shoot one whole bunch of ammo, the Lee stuff seems to work just fine. I have Lee dies, powder measure and single stage press as I do not load a big number per year.
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Post by Bullseye » Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:58 pm

I'm old fashioned in a way, my progressive presses are 25 year old Lee 1000's. These work just fine for me. I have RCBS Rock Chucker, single stages, for the big stuff but the progressives work just fine for me. I still get most of my ammo from government support so my reloading is somewhat at a minimum.

There are some cautions with the tube feed primers - a detonation can cause the whole stack to blow. A friend of mine once lost a piece of his ear when a Lee 1000 tray blew up. He forced a primer into a pocket and the whole tray went up. Luckily he was wearing his eye protection or that could have been a disastrous occurrence. He gained a new respect for the power contained in a little primer. The newer presses have the primer feeding lines isolated to reduce such events from happening.

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Post by toyfj40 » Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:58 pm

bearandoldman wrote:Lee stuff seems to work just fine.
yep... "ifn it ain't broke, don't fix it..."

I don't anticipate ReLoading a 'whole lot' of anything, but
I want to see how I can tweak-a-load for my rifles ( .223, .308, .30-30 )

I've actually 'jammed' 4-5 primers in the last few evenings
such that I was lucky they did not ignite... and I don't recall
having "any" such jams with the 'Lee'... then the tray just
jumps onto the floor (and I was holding the gizmo at an angle
purposely to minimize that!! )...

as mentioned, I'm growing tired of dipping and weighing on my
little digital-scale and watching it for 'calibration'...
I'm noticing that if I use the smaller-spoon for 3-or-4 scoops of
powder and get consistent... I can measure pretty dang close.
(( makes sense, as Matt-Dillon and Paladin each had to reload
out on the prairie and I doubt they had a digital scale... just
measured their powder by volume )) ... So, I'm ready to speed-up
the pain-staking part of my reloading steps and use a powder-measure
(and just check every few/some loads for consistency)...
Most of the 'product review' comments I've found on Powder-Dispensers
seem to caution on the Specific-Powder.. shape/size as to whether
it will measure/dispense consistently... thus far, I've only worked
with HP-38 for 9mm and .38 -and- H335 & Varget for .223, .308 & .30-30

I stay on the easy-side, but found out that you can't get much BELOW
the minimum-powder or the bullet has trouble making it to the crown.
( don't ask me how I know... and I won't have to admit it!! )

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Post by Bullseye » Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:13 pm

I don't let my progressive powder measures go below 1/2 capacity and my routine sample measures are all within .1 grain of my nominal load, that's a good enough value for typical bullseye shooting.

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Post by toyfj40 » Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:13 pm

Bullseye wrote:The newer presses have the primer feeding lines isolated to reduce such events from happening.
I noticed the RCBS 'bench primer' has that, but it is a big piece of equipment.

I have an older "O"-ring RCBS press that I use for sizing...
(not Rock-Chucker, but similar... "JR-3" ? )
and use the cute-little Lee aluminum press for seating.

well.. on to the "next question"... crimping.
It seems to be a good idea to CRIMP my .30-30 bullets for
my Marlin-30AW & Win-94 (remember the "PolyUrinated" rifle I cleaned up ? )
it shoots just fine... (( this is ANOTHER lesson that if you don't-ask, then
I won't have to admit it )) ... I have the Lee-Crimp-Die on my shopping
list for .30-30...
When I get to it, I can start with a light-crimp and increment...
then can decide at the range which level is adequate...
BUT... are there any warnings/comments ??

What about crimping other-calibers?
my .223 and .308 are 1)NEF Handi-Rifles -and- 2) Stevens bolts
not "AR" Semi-Autos... I've not noticed any variance...
am I just not noticing?? should I consider a light-crimp for
consistent pressure "build-up" ??
Last edited by toyfj40 on Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Bullseye » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:55 am

I use a Lee Factory crimp on my .223 & .308 loads with no adverse effects. All military rounds are crimped and sealed with lacquer, which effectively gives the bullets a very tight seal. The factory crimp die is the closest I can get commercially to that kind of consistent pressure build-up in my reloads. Using a crimping die on cartridges fed in a tubular magazine is a must or the recoil will cause the projectiles to loosen in the cases from contact with each other. Many commercial dies already have a roll crimp feature built into them, you just have to seat the die body in the die head to the proper depth and adjust the bullet seater correctly to use it.

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Post by jaeger45 » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:21 pm

Bullseye wrote:I'm old fashioned in a way, my progressive presses are 25 year old Lee 1000's. These work just fine for me. I have RCBS Rock Chucker, single stages, for the big stuff but the progressives work just fine for me. I still get most of my ammo from government support so my reloading is somewhat at a minimum.

There are some cautions with the tube feed primers - a detonation can cause the whole stack to blow. A friend of mine once lost a piece of his ear when a Lee 1000 tray blew up. He forced a primer into a pocket and the whole tray went up. Luckily he was wearing his eye protection or that could have been a disastrous occurrence. He gained a new respect for the power contained in a little primer. The newer presses have the primer feeding lines isolated to reduce such events from happening.

R,
Bullseye
I'm also using a Rock Chucker with an integral primer tube feeder.

I must admit that sometimes, I bear down hard on the press handle to seat a recalcitrant primer ino a tight primer hole. Sometimes, when the primer is not yet fully seated (so I would think), I would exert extra pressure on the press handle and revolve the seated brass a few times on the shell holder and sort of "tamp"- gently, the primer in so it will firnly sit. You think it's not advisable to do that?
A bad shot is often caused by a loose nut behind the buttplate

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Post by Bullseye » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:51 am

Never force or tamp on a primer. There is a difference in seating a normally positioned but stubborn primer and one that is not seated in the primer pocket correctly. The stubborn primer will seat but the improperly seated one may detonate. Swaging the primer pockets to remove a military style crimp is the best and most efficient way to improve primer seating. One could also use a hand beveling tool but swaging is far easier and more uniform process.

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Post by jaeger45 » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:50 pm

Bullseye wrote:I'm old fashioned in a way, my progressive presses are 25 year old Lee 1000's. These work just fine for me. I have RCBS Rock Chucker, single stages, for the big stuff but the progressives work just fine for me. I still get most of my ammo from government support so my reloading is somewhat at a minimum.

There are some cautions with the tube feed primers - a detonation can cause the whole stack to blow. A friend of mine once lost a piece of his ear when a Lee 1000 tray blew up. He forced a primer into a pocket and the whole tray went up. Luckily he was wearing his eye protection or that could have been a disastrous occurrence. He gained a new respect for the power contained in a little primer. The newer presses have the primer feeding lines isolated to reduce such events from happening.

R,
Bullseye
When I was beginning to reload, to determine how much power there is in a primer, I did not put any powder charge in a primed .45 brass and then seated the bullet.

I then shot that round at the range. There was of course no sound, but the force of the primer was such that it drove the 200gr SWC lead bullet firmly into the riflings at the throat. I had to use a hammer and a small steel rod to force it back down the throat. It clearly showed the riflings around it. sea
A bad shot is often caused by a loose nut behind the buttplate

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Post by bearandoldman » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:55 pm

R,
Bullseye[/quote]

When I was beginning to reload, to determine how much power there is in a primer, I did not put any powder charge in a primed .45 brass and then seated the bullet.

I then shot that round at the range. There was of course no sound, but the force of the primer was such that it drove the 200gr SWC lead bullet firmly into the riflings at the throat. I had to use a hammer and a small steel rod to force it back down the throat. It clearly showed the riflings around it. sea[/quote]

Come on there my old friend, are you sure were not,nt just trying to save a pennies or so on the powder charge and make a very mild recoiling load. I have done that a few times myself but no intentionally, also have put the primer in upside down, they just go PFFFFT and nothing at all happens.
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Post by sniper » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:35 pm

Tex;
I have worn out several Lee Auto Primers. I had an older RCBS hand primer, the one with the round tray, sold it , and got another, newer model with the universal(we'll see about that) chuck and square tray. So far, so good.

I use the Lee for pistol primers, and the RCBS for rifle. My round tray kept coming out till I'd really shove it into the receptacle.

I try to keep things simple. I have an old Ohaus beam scale, and use the Lee dipper system to throw charges just slightly below my chosen weight, then bring them up to weight with a powder trickler. I find I can dip a few grains of powder in the Lee dipper, and sort of sprinkle it in till it zeroes, faster that the trickler.

I have a 52gr (exact weight--I got lucky and found one) varmint bullet that I zero the scale with when I set it up.

I also use Lee case trimmers, which work lots better than either my Hornady rotary or my Possom Hollow one.
Lee stuff is good! I have their resizer for my cast bullets, and It works a treat!

One thing I absolutely will not do is use the Lee Classic reloader again! :lol: Hammer, hammer, hammer! Enjoy, and stay safe!

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Post by jaeger45 » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:53 pm

bearandoldman wrote:
jaeger45 wrote: When I was beginning to reload, to determine how much power there is in a primer, I did not put any powder charge in a primed .45 brass and then seated the bullet.

I then shot that round at the range. There was of course no sound, but the force of the primer was such that it drove the 200gr SWC lead bullet firmly into the riflings at the throat. I had to use a hammer and a small steel rod to force it back down the throat. It clearly showed the riflings around it.
Come on there my old friend, are you sure were not,nt just trying to save a pennies or so on the powder charge and make a very mild recoiling load. I have done that a few times myself but no intentionally, also have put the primer in upside down, they just go PFFFFT and nothing at all happens.
Hehehe... Know another dang-fool thing I did with another primed shell ?

With the primed (only) shell in the chamber, I inserted an unsharpened pencil all the way in, letting the rubber (eraser) rest against primer end of the shell. Making sure nobody's in front, I fired the pistol.

The pencil whizzed several yards in a straight line instead of just being pushed limply out of the barrel to plop in front of my feet. There is power in dem thar primers, Len.
A bad shot is often caused by a loose nut behind the buttplate

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Post by bearandoldman » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:08 am

Jaeder, I used to shoot a lot of sporting clays and loaded a lot of shotshell as did all of my friends. Once in a while of course you let the powder bottle get empty and load a no powder load. the primer will usually propel the shot and wad out of the barrel, of course you can see the shot low and watch it hit the ground a few feet ahead of you, sometimes the wad will not ,make it out of the barrel, so you have to look down the barrel and make sure it is clear before the next shot.I have had a load or 2 in the 1911 where I have forgot the powder, that is why the 3/8 dowel rod is in my range bag.
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Post by jaeger45 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:32 am

bearandoldman wrote:Jaeder, I used to shoot a lot of sporting clays and loaded a lot of shotshell as did all of my friends. Once in a while of course you let the powder bottle get empty and load a no powder load. the primer will usually propel the shot and wad out of the barrel, of course you can see the shot low and watch it hit the ground a few feet ahead of you, sometimes the wad will not ,make it out of the barrel, so you have to look down the barrel and make sure it is clear before the next shot.I have had a load or 2 in the 1911 where I have forgot the powder, that is why the 3/8 dowel rod is in my range bag.
Hehehe, I knew you're the type who, just like me, when times are kinda slow, is apt to fool around with things like primers "just to find what it will do if I do this, or if I do that..."

But hey, that's how discoveries are made leading to great inventions!

What's the name now of the guy who noticed how the bullrushes near the muzzle of his shotgun would sway when he fired, and began wondering how to utilize that force of the blast moving the reeds and ultimately leading to one of the greatest invention of all times- recoil-operated firearms, and later, gas-operated ones?
A bad shot is often caused by a loose nut behind the buttplate

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