Lee "factory crimp" die

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charlesb
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Lee "factory crimp" die

Postby charlesb » Fri May 17, 2013 11:16 pm

I have loaded 40 rounds of .308 Winchester ammunition, 20 with 43 grains of A2495, and 20 more with 44 grains of Varget for comparison.

All with freshly trimmed Winchester cases, once fired, with Federal premium Large Rifle match primers. The bullets are Hornady 150 grain SP Interlocks.

The cases are full-length re-sized and I used a Lee "factory crimp" die on them. This was my first time to use the Lee "factory crimp" die, and I was impressed with how easy it was to use.

Weather permitting, I'll be at the range tomorrow morning with a Browning BLR and a Ruger American to see how the loads do with those rifles.

The Lee folks say that the "factory crimp" should give my loads more consistency, less velocity variation between shots. Seems to me that it would work the brass at the end of the neck, maybe weaken it with time - but maybe you get to trim off the weakened part as the case stretches.

Will be crossing my fingers in hopes that the BLR will like one of these loads and shoot tighter groups than I have seen from it so far. - It's had 50-60 rounds through it at this point, so the barrel will perhaps give better accuracy soon after having a chance to break in.

Best it has done so far is around two inches at 100 yards.

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bgreenea3
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Postby bgreenea3 » Sat May 18, 2013 12:25 am

the lee factory crimp dies give a nice even crimp on the bullet, and from my experience doesn't over work the brass. greener had good luck using one in 45acp .
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Postby blue68f100 » Sat May 18, 2013 8:55 am

I do not recommend the FCD for any thing. Sorry, I'm old school and learned how to do it right when this die was not even made. In 40+ yrs of reloading now I still do not own a LFCD and have no desire too. Most get in a habit of trying to use it to correct a improper set die. Now with that said. If your shooting jacketed ammo that is properly sized it can on occasion improve your grouping. But in reality all it is doing is correcting something you were not doing correctly to start off with. I would suggest you pull one bullet and look at how it deforms it. Brass and lead have a different elasticity, where brass will spring back and lead will not.

In no way I recommend them for 45acp or any other pistol round. If your shooting lead they actually reduce neck tension since it does a FL size on a loaded round. I know of some users remove the sizing ring at the base and just use the crimp function. This is ok since you are not sizing the bullet down and you do not over crimp. In pistol ammo all you should be doing ins removing the flare unless it's a roll crimp. In ALL cases you do not want to be resizing LEAD bullets and some plated bullets. Since these are normally over size and doing so will reduce neck tension. Neck tension comes from the sizing process, NOT FROM THE CRIMP. So any sizing afterwards will cause loss in neck tension.

Now this can run into a problem depending on thickness of the brass. If your brass is on the heavy size you loose neck tension. If the brass is under size nothing lost or gained.

My recommendation is loose the die and figure out what your doing wrong.
David

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Postby bgreenea3 » Sat May 18, 2013 4:48 pm

interesting... I have not had those issues with it at all. nor has anyone who actually has used the LFCD, that I know. I don't use it to fix a problem with my crimp, but either use it FOR my crimp on some calibers instead of trying to seat and crimp in on step. I do like how it makes the rounds run though it all the same spec from base to case mouth and I do seem to get more consistant ammo with it than with out. but I guess your mileage may vary.
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charlesb
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Postby charlesb » Wed May 22, 2013 10:43 pm

The bullets that I am using the Lee "factory crimp die" with have a crimping groove.

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Postby blue68f100 » Thu May 23, 2013 8:54 am

charlesb wrote:The bullets that I am using the Lee "factory crimp die" with have a crimping groove.


Those that are design to can take a crimp without damaging the bullet. Now if you happen to get bullets without the groove you run a greater chance of damaging the core. But even in my Win 100 (simi-auto) 308W I do not apply any crimp. I have never had any problems with bullet setback or movement.

One thing if your going to crimp make sure all are the same length. Any variation in length effects the crimp. Which means you need to trim every time if your not using the RCBS X die like I am. On a bolt gun you can go to just neck sizing and get better life out of your brass along with better accuracy in most cases.
David



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Postby bgreenea3 » Thu May 23, 2013 11:23 pm

I think it comes down to taper or roll crimp. the 38 spl dies are roll crimp the 308 win are taper, both need a crimp or the bullets in the magazine can pull or set back up firing. either pulling and jammin up the gun or setting back and creatig an over pressure issue. the crimp holds the bullet in the case to esure better ignition as well.
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Postby blue68f100 » Fri May 24, 2013 9:17 am

The 38 spl does not have enough recoil to worry about setback if the bullet fit is right. But most revolvers ammo has them. The 308 is Roll Crimp (never seen a TC die set) if you use it. I have never needed it and I have shot them in BLR and simi-autos. The roll crimp is to allow for higher pressure build up in the case before the bullet exits. Certain powders like 110/W296 require a heavy crimp. The bullet fit to brass is what creates neck tension. NOT CRIMP. But all autos feed differently some are harder on slamming the bolt close than other. But if you have your head space set right it can not get the bounce which can cause set back. A round that is allowed to float freely (a lot of head space) is more likely to have setback if you repeatedly load and unload a gun. In any case you should not do it more than 3 time in a auto or lever gun.

If you do a neck tension test on a 308 it should take over 50 lbs of force to cause the bullet to move. The only exception is long range BE shooters. They seam to run little to very little with the notion you have less variation which is true. Some will just do enough neck tension to hold the bullet. The bullet will be 0.020" into the lands and when they chamber the round the bullet slide back freely. The key here is to have light enough tension so you can unload the rounds without pulling the bullet from the case dumping powder.
David



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bgreenea3
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Postby bgreenea3 » Sat May 25, 2013 1:27 am

To each their own when it comes to astro turf vs grass....umm. to crumpled or not to crumpled, that is the question before us today. I do see your point but I will still use a good solid crimp on my loads. Anne I still like the lee factory crimp dies. In fact your post is the first negative type review I've seen on them.
"Courage is being scared to death... and saddling up anyway."



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blue68f100
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Postby blue68f100 » Sat May 25, 2013 8:35 am

There are a lot of pros and cons when it comes to the LFCD. There rifle die has reported good results for some reloaders. But those who have been doing it a long time tested it and found 70% of the time the groups opened up on them. I do like the idea in the way the LFCD crimps the rifle rounds. But you have to do it in moderation. If over done just a little it will damage the core.

Pistol ammo is where it's mostly abused. New comers end up using it to correct a bullet that will not pass the Plunk test. Which tells you right off something is not right with their setup. But when it come to loading Lead, YOU must remove the carbide sizing ring at the base if your going to use it. Other wise you will be resizing the lead bullet loosing neck tension. If you do this the die is usable if you do not over crimp.

It's a fix for a non existent problem. I always recommend to find out why it will not pass the plunk test and you don't need the extra step.

Some like it, some don't. I'm one that have no use for it and do not own one. :wink:
David



SS MKIII 6 7/8" Fluted Hunter. Mueller Quick Shot, Bushnell 2x Scope, Hogue Rubber Grips

Custom Built 1911

greener

Postby greener » Wed May 29, 2013 9:19 pm

Lee is pretty high on the FCD, as would be expected since they make it. If used properly on rifle ammo, it gives a constant pull pressure.

I use the standard (roll) crimp die for pistol ammo, except for .45 ACP. I get better, more consistent fit, especially in the Taurus 1911, this way. I have no fit problems with any other handgun ammo. Mainly load FMJ ammo for .380 and 9mm, lead for everything else except for HP ammo. I'm pretty satisfied with the results.


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