First shot flier

[bearandoldman]

Ever get them after an ammo change? Was shooting my Stock 10/22T toady from a rest at 25 yards, shot some Blazer and CCI subs and they were good and then tried a 10 round mag of Wolf MT. first shot went not bad as marked and the next 9 made about a .32 caliber hole just a little way to the right. Time to zero that scope for the Wolf and leave it alone, eh?

[blue68f100]

Some times it's the ammo lube. I like to run at least 1 round / inch of barrel length. The some say on autos its the bolt closing different under the first round. Not the same as being fired, the reason they tell you not to ride the bolt back. I think all may have some impact.

[Bullseye]

Are you cleaning between the ammo changes?

R,
Bullseye

[bearandoldman]

Are you cleaning between the ammo changes?

R,
Bullseye

No, not cleaning the barrel between changing ammo, in fact never clean the barrel unless the accuracy would be like a shotgun on cylinder choke. If I clean the barrel the first shot will still be different than the next shots following. You know the key to accuracy is to keep everything as consistent as possible, samo, samo and it will be good. I can control all of the conditions and keep them the same, the only one I have a problem is the operator. The only difference I can see is the first round is not going down the barrel on the same lube as the following 9. Will dial in some corrections to get it to center of target today and see what happens when the lube in the barrel is the same. Other brands of ammo do not seem to have as much effect at the Wolf MT. The bore condition for the first shot is not the same as the following 9 as the lube in the barrel is from the last brand of ammo. Now the barrel has the Wolf lube, so we will see what happens today.

[Bullseye]

That is why I asked, powder fouling could account for what you were experiencing with the first shots if you had been cleaning between strings. If you're taking time between the strings, and the barrel is cooling, a similar effect can also occur.

R,
Bullseye

[bearandoldman]

That is why I asked, powder fouling could account for what you were experiencing with the first shots if you had been cleaning between strings. If you're taking time between the strings, and the barrel is cooling, a similar effect can also occur.

R,
Bullseye

.
After giving it some thought, I do not recall seeing so much difference with any other ammo just the Wolf. Got to be the bullet lube as the Wolf MT lube is sure different than any other ammo that I have used. When the barrel conditions are the same they pretty much all go through the same hole. If I had a real benchrest setup like KAZ they probably would, just using a low cost front restt and a Caldwell eared rear bag,

[stork]

BOAM,
I used to preach the same, never clean a rimfire bore. Until last winter. Unexplained off call shots led me to bench my MKII at 50' with 2 hands. I've attached a link to the targets. Same box of ammo, same shooter, same bench. If I hadn't been the one pulling the trigger I would doubt the results myself.

I still won't try to clean my rimfires like my centerfires but I will clean them at about 5000 rounds now. Even tho the first few shots are out of the group, the group will be smaller.

FWIW


http://s838.photobucket.com/albums/zz30 ... %20fouled/

[bearandoldman]

stork, like I mentioned in an earlier post, when the target looks like it is a shotgun pattern on cylinder bore and not a group, it is time to clean.

[stork]

Mine looked like a skeet #2.

[bearandoldman]

Skeet #2 is not that bad, it could have been worse, definitely time to clean though.
Got out yesterday to check out my theories. Same gun the 10/22T and the same Wolf MT ammo as before. Gun had not been fired since that posted group. First shot was a cold barrel flier about 3/8 left and the next 9 through the same raggedy hole, though not as good as the day before. Believe it can all be blamed on the trigger operator as his attitude was not as good as the day before. Shot a few more groups with Wolf and they were all good but not the best. Switched to some other ammo and never got the first shot flier on any ammo change. Will try again today with another gun with a GM .920 barrel.

[bearandoldman]

Thanks to all for the advice and especially blue for mentioning the bolt as that go me thinking. One day it seemed to be a flier after changing to Wolf MT, but I never shot another round that day after that and had changed other ammo before without any fliers. Next day, started with Wolf and got what I thought was a cold barrel flier on the first round. Got me to thinking as to what was not the same from shot to shot and then the light came on, bolt closing. Some time I will load a mag with the bolt locked back and with the auto release, just pull the bolt back and let it fly, never ride it down because it was not intended to operate that way. Other time I was loading a mag to a closed bolt, pulling back and letting it fly as this is more like how the gun operates except the bolt opens faster when firing than this old man can open it. Yesterday took out another 10/22, this one with a GM 20 inch .920 barrel and a revolution Tundra stock. This time we made sure we loaded every mag to a closed bolt to keep things consistent, as we know accuracy relies on repeated sameness. First round of Wolf from a cold barrel in the middle of the bull and the other 9 followed making about a.32 to .38 caliber hole. Changed ammo back and forth with about 3 other brands and never did get a flier on the first or any other round. Any errant rounds were strictly an operator failure.
So it is not the ammo or lube or clean or fouled barrel but the fact that from an open bolt the first round loads differently than the way it does when the gun operates. Yes I do get a lot of range time in, my shooting bud and I are both retired and the range is only 15 minutes or less away and never busy at mid day, so we do shoot a lot.

[Bullseye]

Sometimes it's the little details that make all the difference. In this case it is cartridge seating, after all that's what the bolt does when it strips it off of the magazine. A few thousandths makes the difference when consistency is the key.

R,
Bullseye

[bearandoldman]

Sometimes it's the little details that make all the difference. In this case it is cartridge seating, after all that's what the bolt does when it strips it off of the magazine. A few thousandths makes the difference when consistency is the key.

R,
Bullseye

Yes it dies, consistency is the road to accuracy, eh? NoW TO TAKE THE 10/22t BACK TO THE RANGE AND PROVE IT WITH THAT GUN ALSO.

[greener]

I generally follow the same cleaning regime as oldman. It's led me to .22 cal shotgun patterns after a 30 minute drive to the range. My rifle barrel cleaning will probably be upgraded a bit.

I get fliers from cold barrels and some ammo. I may get fliers on ammo changes, but I usually make enough of a change that I have to readjust the scope, so the flier is a different POI. Some of the changes seem to require a round or two to stabilize the barrel.

[bearandoldman]

My fliers seemed to go way after I started to load a mag to a closed bolt, rack and shoot. Have not had a real flier since than that could be blamed on anything other than the trigger puller.