Need 10/22 help

[purchawk]

I'd appreciate some help.

I'm a mechanical dunce, but I wanted to improve my old Ruger 10/22, so I installed a Green Mtn. 20" target barrel, a Volquartsen hammer and hammer spring, an aftermarket bolt stop, and a poly bolt buffer. I put this combination into a Hogue stock.

It all assembled according to instructions, although the barrel was very tight and I had a hard time getting it seated properly (at first, I had the chamber flush with the inside of the receiver, but found out it should protrude into the receiver).

I took it out to a friend's back-lot range on a cold day and put 30 rounds through it OK. No problems.

I cleaned the barrel at home and went back to fire more rounds, but this time it failed to fire the first round and intermittently thereafter. It also failed to extract and eject most rounds, and the trigger would not reset.

I brought it back home, dissaembled again, and on advice, I rotated the barrel slightly to make certain the extractor was in the slot of the barrel.

I check it again with spent shells, and it extracted each one (I tested several brands) and left deep firing pin marks. I tested this successfully with the action and barrel both free of the stock and when installed in the stock. The magazine fit as it should with a little play and dropped out freely when released.

I took the rifle back out to the range in 20 degree weather today, and it failed to fire and failed to eject again, exactly as before, although the trigger did reset properly.

Back at home, once again, the extractor grabbed all shells, and the firing pin left a deep mark.

I'm really stumped and really frustrated. When it fires, it's a tack-driver, but it doesn't fire much!

Any opinions?

[Bullseye]

My first thoughts are temperature. Semi-autos tend to bind up a little below 35° f. Having a brand new action doesn't help as it hasn't had sufficient time to break-in either. A tight chamber combined with cold weather may be the problem here. The cartridges aren't seating well and then they are binding in the chamber, causing the extractor hook to slip off the rim.

How were you inserting the spent shells for testing? Did you place them in the chamber and then close the bolt?

R,
Bullseye

[purchawk]

Yes, I put the spent shell into the chamber with tweezers while holding the bolt back. Then I let the bolt snap forward on the shell.

After I'd posted last night, I finally saw on the barrel a notice that it might not extract unfired shells. so perhaps the biggest problem is FTF.

I know the GM barrel is supposed to have a very tight chamber, but I hate to have turned this into a single-shot rifle.

I will stop trying to test the action in cold weather, and meanwhile I'll check the firing pin and reinstall the original Ruger hammer spring.

[Bullseye]

The symptoms sound like a tight chamber. The rounds are not seating fully with the extra friction from the chamber. If the cartridge rim doesn't sit flush on the chamber edge then the firing pin cannot crush it properly for detonation.

R,
Bullseye

[purchawk]

Bullseye:

Is there any solution to this? Must it go back to Green Mtn. or will it improve with use?--I don't imagine there can be much break-in wear in the chamber from only the brass cartridges, and besides, I'd think I'd want a tight chamber for accuracy.

Would a stronger bolt handle spring help seat the bolt properly?

I appreciate your help, as always. Following your advice has made my Mark III into a fine target pistol for .22 bulleseye competition. I was hoping to use this 10/22 for the optics segment of my club's informal 100-yard smallbore competition.

[bearandoldman]

Bullseye:

Is there any solution to this? Must it go back to Green Mtn. or will it improve with use?--I don't imagine there can be much break-in wear in the chamber from only the brass cartridges, and besides, I'd think I'd want a tight chamber for accuracy.

Would a stronger bolt handle spring help seat the bolt properly?

Yes it will seat the cartridge better, but remember the spring pushes harder when it closes the bolt and makes more resistance when the bolt opens. This will cause ejection problems and feed problems as the bolt will not reach it's full designed travel.

[purchawk]

Damned if I do; damned if I don't.

[bearandoldman]

Damned if I do; damned if I don't.

If you are having a fail to fire problem it may be the VQ hammer and spring, I believe the hammer is lighter than a stock hammer?? Problem may be the barrel, you may have to change some parts back to stock to find the definite problem, If you change several parts at one time you do not know which one helped or hindered. I have several 10/22's and they all shoot well with the stock barrels, some will shoot under a 1/4 at 25 yard 10 shot groups. Have thought of a barrel change to an aftermarket but can not decide if the increase in accuracy is worth the cost and grief involved. If I was to change a barrel, I would just have Nemohunter set back and rechamber the stock barrel.

[purchawk]

Good advice BandOM. I have been too impatient and erroneously beleived it would all function when I put the new stuff in the gun.

I'm going to slow down and test methodically (and wait for higher temps).

I did some indoor workbench testing of the extractor this morning, and I found that thin rimmed cartridges such as Remington bulk, Federal bulk, and Federal Champion will extract unfired OK.

However, the thicker rimmed CCI and Eley ammo will not. The extractor slips over the rim, but the rounds apparently are lodged too tightly in the chamber.

When I can get outside, I'll test the same ammo for extraction when fired. I had some CCI Mini-Mag spent shells, and they extracted OK.

I'll run through a procedure to test the componets then, also.

I'd hate to go back to the original stock, since I love the feel of the Hogue.

[bearandoldman]

hawk, don't worry about extracting unfired round the gun was designed to extract and eject fired rounds. I have heard of guys with 1911's complaining it is hard to eject an unfired round because the port is too small, JMB designed it to eject empty case, that is what it was designed to do and it works.

[purchawk]

Guys:

It warmed above freezing yesterday, so I did some more live-fire tests with the new VQ hammer but the original Ruger hammer spring reinstalled.

Results:
Gun still has significant FTF problems with all grades of ammo (I tested five brands from subsonic target to hot CCI). The gun does extract and eject all fired rounds, however, but not unfired, thick-rimmed cartridges -- thus confirming your analyses.
The trigger does not reset after most fired rounds.
The rifle is very accurate and the trigger pull is now down to target range (which was the goal of the hammer change).

Proposed Action:
Intall a new stronger Wolff hammer spring
Install a new trigger plunger reset spring
Install a new firing pin
Add two more shims to hammer (it has a lot of play as now installed)

Please let me know if any of this sounds wrong or if you can suggest something in addition.

Thanks again for the great help!

[purchawk]

I should add that I really need to keep the new VQ hammer, since installing it lightened the heavy stock trigger down to around 2 or 3 pounds, which is vital. I'll do what it takes to keep that trigger pull.

[blue68f100]

I would think replacing the hammer spring would increase the amount of force required to drive the bolt back. If the hammer is not resetting now it would make it worst. The new FP may do the trick and a VQ Exact edged Extractor would help it grabbing the brass.

I really think the best fix would to have the chamber reamed to make sure it is in spec, sounds a little tight. I know the tighter the better but if you have to shoot in cold weather it may be the best option since there is a wide range in ammo variations.

[bearandoldman]

I would think replacing the hammer spring would increase the amount of force required to drive the bolt back. If the hammer is not resetting now it would make it worst. The new FP may do the trick and a VQ Exact edged Extractor would help it grabbing the brass.

I really think the best fix would to have the chamber reamed to make sure it is in spec, sounds a little tight. I know the tighter the better but if you have to shoot in cold weather it may be the best option since there is a wide range in ammo variations.

My personal opinion is, go bac to the stock barrel and if the problems go away, you know what caused them, Like I originallly stated when doing mods on anything, guns, motorcyles, snowmobiles, cars, do one thing at a TIME AND YOU WILL KO WHERE YOU ARE. mIGT TAKE A LITTLE LONGER TO START BUT WILL SAVE A LOT OF TIME AND GREIF LATER.

[purchawk]

Old Man: That's what I'm doing--one change at a time and testing as you suggested.

However, the whole point of spending so much effort and money is to get the benefits of a target barrel and a reduced trigger pull. My goal is a 100-yard, MOA shooter.

The Green Mtn barrel and the VQ hammer accomplish both objectives, so I don't want to go back to a stock barrel (besides which I traded it in on the new one) and 9 lb. trigger.

I think the chamber is tight, but it is allowing extraction now that I have the extractor slot at the right angle and the tight chamber aids accuracy.

I'm going to run through the list of changes in my previous post and see which one[s] work.

If a new hammer spring does not improve FTF, I'll reinstall the Ruger original (which is in the gun now).

Then I'll try the plunger reset spring

Then a new firing pin, if the FTF persists.

I really am taking your advice!

I'm taking is slow now, and I don't expect an instant fix.
ll