Internal Key Lock

jstanfield103 · Post by **jstanfield103** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:53 am

It seems to be that some people are having the internal key lock jam their gun up. I know that you have responded to a couple on other sites Bullseye or have at least read about it. I had difficulty in trying to find out how to remove it. I finally removed mine so there is no chance on it happening to me, I have never used it and will never use it. I kept all the parts so that if I get rid of the gun it can be put back to factory speck's. Bulls eye my question is, can or should you add something like this to you're maintenance page.

http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=524

Thanks for looking in advance.
Jeff

greener · Post by **greener** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:00 pm

Good link. I think I've seen all of this. I'm not sure why he would do Dremel work to remove the mag disconnect when a Clark, Sam Lam or Bullseye's bushing will do the job a lot easier.

jstanfield103 · Post by **jstanfield103** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:43 am

Greener I don't know either, what is $11.00 shipped for the bushing. I did not really want to post the whole link, but I did not want to steel the pictures and write up to post on another site for just the internal key lock part. I have read at least two people recently, that the internal key lock has backed out and could not get their gun to work and or get them apart. I decided to take mine out, it was incredibly easy to do, that I thought Bullseye might want to make it part of his maintenance page. Doing this is not easily found on the internet, took some looking and others may want to do this also. I never use my internal key lock I keep my gun locked up in a quick safe.

greener · Post by **greener** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:58 am

I don't use internal locks either. The only internal lock problem I've had was on a P22 during reassembly after a detailed strip. I left it out. The only internal lock key I carry is for the 442. I ought to carry a key when I shoot the MKIII's or remove the lock. If I didn't carry a key and had a problem with the lock I'd be out of luck.

Of course if the lock failed on the 442 and I had to use the key, I'd probably be up that proverbial creek.

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:14 am

greener wrote:I don't use internal locks either. The only internal lock problem I've had was on a P22 during reassembly after a detailed strip. I left it out. The only internal lock key I carry is for the 442. I ought to carry a key when I shoot the MKIII's or remove the lock. If I didn't carry a key and had a problem with the lock I'd be out of luck.

Of course if the lock failed on the 442 and I had to use the key, I'd probably be up that proverbial creek.

Without the proverbial paddle also, and then the buffalo chips would hit ye fan.Does my 442 have a key?

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:14 am

greener wrote:I don't use internal locks either. The only internal lock problem I've had was on a P22 during reassembly after a detailed strip. I left it out. The only internal lock key I carry is for the 442. I ought to carry a key when I shoot the MKIII's or remove the lock. If I didn't carry a key and had a problem with the lock I'd be out of luck.

Of course if the lock failed on the 442 and I had to use the key, I'd probably be up that proverbial creek.

Without the proverbial paddle also, and then the buffalo chips would hit ye fan.Does my 442 have a key?

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:22 pm

If my 629 44 mag with a 4" bbl hasn't ever engaged itself I don't think you should worry too much about the 442 ....

I think that that smith and my Springfield milspec 1911 are my only guns with internal lock..... I turned the 1911's once to see if it worked , I don't even have a key for the 44.

Hakaman · Post by **Hakaman** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:49 pm

I don't even have a key for the 44.

That's one of the possible issues of such engineered safety, what happens when you can't find the key to a locked hg. I suppose you could use it to clobber someone on the head with if the situation permitted.
Haka

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:13 pm

Always remember back whens younger and shot a lot of sporting clays, the 1st station was near a 1/4 mile back from the clubhouse. a group with some newbie with us got back and we started to shoot our rotation, when it got to his turn he remembered the key was in the car back in the parking lot by the clubhouse. What to do, wait for him or just go on and enjoy shooting, no being nice guys we shot the course and he went out on a different group later.

Post by **Bullseye** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:21 pm

I have looked at the page and see the procedures you've mentioned and the procedures are well written. There have been a few instances where a defective lock cylinder has caused a pistol to be difficult to field strip, but only a few. I'm not sure if I would add this to the maintenance pages only because that cylinder lock spring gets destroyed when removed and therefore cannot be restored to factory specs if the owner decides later. The same could be said for altering the magazine safety hook, once altered there's no going back. All the recommendations I've used so far only remove the factory part and replace it with a viable substitute, which could easily be returned to factory specs if the owner desires by just switching back the removed safety parts. I would also ensure that the front edge of the modified magazine safety hook is beveled at an angle, much like the original was, to ensure that it could not hang up on the back side of the sear and cause a multiple firing or "out-of-battery" situation. I see that the lower edge is rounded but there is enough flat portion to possibly allow for this condition to happen under the right circumstances.

I appreciate the offer.

R,
Bullseye

jstanfield103 · Post by **jstanfield103** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:00 pm

Bullseye, I was just talking about the Keyed internal lock. You are right if you don't do it correct you mess the spring up. I had no problem removing the spring at all intact as new. Thanks for the reply, I to wanted the spring intact incase I ever sold the gun I could put it back stock.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:23 pm

bearandoldman wrote:Always remember back whens younger and shot a lot of sporting clays, the 1st station was near a 1/4 mile back from the clubhouse. a group with some newbie with us got back and we started to shoot our rotation, when it got to his turn he remembered the key was in the car back in the parking lot by the clubhouse. What to do, wait for him or just go on and enjoy shooting, no being nice guys we shot the course and he went out on a different group later.

My Bro in law did that with a pair of Remmington Etronix rifles he was working loads for. We got to the range, opend his case and realized the keys to turn on the rifle (electric trigger run by a 9v battery and uses special primers, actually is pretty slick to shoot) were back at home on his workbench.....he did the same thing another time but it was the padlock to his pistol case..... :yakillme:

Post by **Bullseye** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:10 am

I agree but as an example for others, it would be best to display a plunger spring that has been removed intact. Otherwise it may imply to someone that the task is more difficult than it actually is to accomplish.

R,
Bullseye

greener · Post by **greener** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:49 am

Bullseye wrote: All the recommendations I've used so far only remove the factory part and replace it with a viable substitute, which could easily be returned to factory specs if the owner desires by just switching back the removed safety parts.
R,
Bullseye

If I ever sell a MKIII it will be either returned to factory "standard" or sold with the factory parts and signed acknowledgement by the buyer that he is aware of the modifications and assumes full responsibility. Probably the same for VQ parts in any of them. I've kept the parts I've removed in labeled bags for that purpose.