Big Problems MKIII 22/45

Discuss .22 pistols.

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Aszor
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Big Problems MKIII 22/45

Post by Aszor » Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:14 pm

Ok people I really need your help, And I know you are excellent with your .22's Bullseye as I have seen you post on several Ruger sites, So I thought I would post here. I have a MKIII 22/45 with over 4k round through it, and have assembled and disassemble alot, so I know its not me doing something wrong so far! It was working flawlessly then cleaned and oiled and put in the safe as always. I went to use it today and had all sorts of problems. The bolt seemed to be sticking. At first when I loaded a mag and released the bolt it seemed to stick, I thought at first the bullet was catching on the feed ramp but wasnt sure. I could load the mag then quickly rack the bolt and it would load most of the times. But was just problem after problem with it. I finally get back from the range and now find I can NOT disassemble it. The main spring does not come out of the frame all the way to disassemble. Then noticed when playing around that when I rack the bolt it does not realease proper I have to nudge it while holding the bolt release, and then when it should be loaded to dry fire it is NOT! Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am in Canada and would hate to have to send this back to Ruger due to costs and time. Thanks in advance!

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Waffen
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Post by Waffen » Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:04 am

I've had this exact same thing happen many times. To fix this you will have ot knock out the hammer pivot pin, which will allow you to release the main spring and dissasemble the pistol.

This is caused for me when I get in a hurry reassembling the pistol and forget to point the muzzle vertically when I place the mainspring in. Sometimes it even happens when I do.

Bullseye will come in here and follow this up with a much more technical explination, and own me, but in my expirence this is whats causing your issue.

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Post by Bullseye » Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:15 am

I've heard this story before with Mark III 22/45's, and unfortunately a lot lately. Look at your pistol's left side; does it look like this?

Image

If it does then your hammer pivot pin has walked. If this pivot pin moves the hammer is thrust askew by the mainspring. The hammer's binding the bolt causing it to drag. It is sitting cocked in the bolt channel and dragging on the bolt. The mainspring won't release from the frame due to the hammer still being partially cocked. Usually these have started from a missassembly like this:

Image

And unfortunately they may result in frame damage like this: Pics of frame damage

The first thing you have to do is get the pistol apart to inspect it for damage. Here's what I recommend. First get a block of wood and place it on the ground: a piece of 2X4 on a cement floor or other hard surface is preferred. Next insert an empty magazine. Don't cycle the bolt. Now squeeze the trigger and hold it back. Turn the muzzle downwards and while holding the trigger back bang it muzzle down on the block of wood. The wood will protect the barrel's crown and you're trying to force the hammer fully forward by inertia. This is an effective technique but may take some firm striking. Then remove the magazine and try removing the mainspring housing. Repeat the process and keep trying until you can remove the mainspring housing. Inspect the frame for damage after you get the receiver off.

Hope this helps.

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Aszor
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Still Problems?

Post by Aszor » Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:44 am

Thank you Bullseye, and others for the reply. The good news is that the hammer pivot pin has NOT come out of the frame causing damge to the frame,its still as should be but after looking the pistol over, I do agree the pistol maybe partialy cocked as there is maybe a 1/16 of an inch gap between the bolt ears and the barrel. The bad news is it is still jammed up. I will try using a block of wood and a mallot to drive the bolt forward to release the hammer. Any other ideas of what could be damaged? Thanks again for the replies!

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Post by bearandoldman » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:26 am

Bullseye, is this something that is only happenning with the MarkIII 22/45'sor is this a common problem to al 22/45's? I don't take mine apart very often andthey always go together easily and work first time, but the are the rolder 22/45's. The only time I have ever had all those parts out ws to change to the VQ sear. By the way my bench rest guns are begining to come into their own and am starting to get under 1/2 in groups at 255 yards wtit standard velocity ammo. The key to the whole setup is the base plate I added to the mag to steady the gun after I noticed Seal killer has those wide flanged target grips on his steel framed gun. No grips for the 22/45 but this method does get the job done. Used 1/4 luann on the forst one with hot glue, the gluue held biut the luann delamonated. Have now switche to a better piece of wood and flat head sheet metal screws.
http://www.geocities.com/oldman1727/mag1.jpg
You have great day and shoot straight and may the Good Lord smile on you.
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Post by maximaman77 » Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:21 am

bearandoldman wrote:By the way my bench rest guns are begining to come into their own and am starting to get under 1/2 in groups at 255 yards wtit standard velocity ammo.
:shock:
:mrgreen:
1/2 groups @ 765 feet!! :P :wink:

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bearandoldman
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Post by bearandoldman » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:19 pm

maximaman77 wrote:
bearandoldman wrote:By the way my bench rest guns are begining to come into their own and am starting to get under 1/2 in groups at 255 yards wtit standard velocity ammo.
:shock:
:mrgreen:
1/2 groups @ 765 feet!! :P :wink:
Just remember that the hand is quicker that the eye, that is why youu see so many black eyes should be 25yards
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Post by maximaman77 » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:52 pm

bearandoldman wrote: Just remember that the hand is quicker that the eye, that is why youu see so many black eyes should be 25yards
Just razz'n you :D

Hand & draw are faster than the eye/red cheek

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bearandoldman
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Post by bearandoldman » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:08 pm

maximaman77 wrote:
bearandoldman wrote: Just remember that the hand is quicker that the eye, that is why youu see so many black eyes should be yards
Just razzing you :D
That is a neat commercial.
Ma and Bear and I were on a road trip Sunday afternoon, the pistol range I belong to is not open on Sunday and there was no one at my club to shoot sporting clays, so we took a little trip west of here over near Alma MI. There is a range over there where they shoot silhouettes, the metal fall over ones and they had a match going so we got to watch for a while. They were shooting small and big bore also, big bore is them on lg barrel single shot pistols usually shot from the Creedmore position using pretty much a center fire rifle cartridge. Talk about long, the small bores shoot to 100 yards and the big bore to 500 yards, yes no typo this time. That is a long way out, actually they can shoot to 500 meters as most of the big bore and black powder cartridge guns do shoot the rams at 500 meters. Kind of neat to hear the gun fire, short time lapse and the target falls over and a longer time lapse and hear "CLANG".
Does look like some fun shooting though, only guns I had with me were my SA 1911 Micro and a 20 gage o/u, or I may have tried it.
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Post by Bullseye » Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:56 pm

bearandoldman wrote:Bullseye, is this something that is only happenning with the MarkIII 22/45'sor is this a common problem to al 22/45's? I don't take mine apart very often andthey always go together easily and work first time, but the are the rolder 22/45's. The only time I have ever had all those parts out ws to change to the VQ sear. By the way my bench rest guns are begining to come into their own and am starting to get under 1/2 in groups at 255 yards wtit standard velocity ammo. The key to the whole setup is the base plate I added to the mag to steady the gun after I noticed Seal killer has those wide flanged target grips on his steel framed gun. No grips for the 22/45 but this method does get the job done. Used 1/4 luann on the forst one with hot glue, the gluue held biut the luann delamonated. Have now switche to a better piece of wood and flat head sheet metal screws.
http://www.geocities.com/oldman1727/mag1.jpg
Len,

So far the problems with the frames getting damaged seems to be only with the Mark III 22/45 models. I know of no Mark II 22/45's suffering damage like this from a pin backing out. This may be due to a new type of plastic used in the new frames. Another possibility is more stress on the new frame due to the thinner width. Right now I can't say which is causing the damage but I now know of four different frames that have this same problem in the last six weeks. There may be even more of these out there, the owners just haven't realized the scope of the problem yet.

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Re: Still Problems?

Post by Bullseye » Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:00 pm

Aszor wrote:Thank you Bullseye, and others for the reply. The good news is that the hammer pivot pin has NOT come out of the frame causing damge to the frame,its still as should be but after looking the pistol over, I do agree the pistol maybe partialy cocked as there is maybe a 1/16 of an inch gap between the bolt ears and the barrel. The bad news is it is still jammed up. I will try using a block of wood and a mallot to drive the bolt forward to release the hammer. Any other ideas of what could be damaged? Thanks again for the replies!
Well I'm relieved to hear that the pin is in place. Now before we start tapping with a mallet let's do a little inspecting. Pull that bolt back and give the inside of the breech a good look over. Check the extractor, the loaded chamber indicator, the ejector anything that could be preventing the bolt from traveling that last little bit. Something is causing the problem, we just have to discover the source. Let me know what, if anything, you see.

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Updates

Post by Aszor » Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:43 pm

Thanks again for all the info people. Just to give you abit of an update, I had looked the enitre gun over and could not see what was holding it up. I had tapped with a rubber mallot and was able to break it free. I have had it apart and looked it over good, there is no damage to it what so ever. I still cant figure it out, I dont know what was holding up. now that I have cleaned it and put it back together it cycles perfect! The only thing I have noticed not pertaining to previous problem, is that the feed ramp edge seems to be very sharp, and it shaves abit off of the tip of a bullet sometimes, If I use hollow points it jams almost every time I release the bolt to chamber a round, The hollow point gets pushed into the feedramp edge and gets stuck and puts a slit in the middle of the bullet. I have tried to slightly polish it using fine grit sand paper , seems to work a bit better. I know my answer is just not to use hollow points but is there anything else a guy might be able to try? I know it probably isnt good to take too much off of the feedramp, all I have done was made it a little more blunt so its not so sharp. If anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate it. Again Thanks for all your help, I might not have got it working with out you guys :D

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Post by Bullseye » Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:04 pm

Wow, a self-healing problem. Well this may creep back up again, but at least you're prepared.

I'm wondering if the firing pin stop pin is loose in the bolt? Does it want to move around or fall out when you reinstall the bolt? This could be dragging in the inside of the receiver tube. Shine a light inside the receive and check for any shiny spots or lines.

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Post by Bullseye » Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:06 pm

I did not address the ramp strikes. Do they happen on just the first round, or is it throughout a loaded magazine?

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Reply

Post by Aszor » Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:55 pm

Thanks again so much Bullseye for the responses. I looked into the firing pin stop theory, It does not fall out when the bolt is shaken it moves slightly when I press on it with my finger nail. Its tight but not perfect, should I maybe put some antisieze or grease on it to hold it in place? I can not see anything else. There is signs of maybe the pin moving out a tad but not alot. Its hard to tell by the wear if its that or maybe just a burr on the bolt. As for the ramp strikes they happen on the first strike. I have pretty much eliminated this problem by a good cleaning of the mag lips and by using non hollow point rounds. It does it maybe one in every 3 to 5 hundred rounds with non hollow points. I have noticed by cycling ammo threw it, it does shave a tiny sliver off the bullet. Judging from a range test it does not mess up accuracy. thanks again for all the info it helped alot!

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