Model 41 Ejection Problem?

dapster · Post by **dapster** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:07 pm

The problem described happens around 4 to 6 times per hundred rounds of standard velocity CCI, evidently the ammunition of choice.

What happens is that the spent case appears to have been extracted. But, prior to ejection it gets wedged by the next round already partially chambered. The wedged, empty case is oriented left to right with the rim end at the left suggesting previous contact with the ejector.

I suspect the ultimate cause may be masked by other factors. Any constructive thoughts will be most appreciated.

toyfj40 · Post by **toyfj40** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:19 pm

do you have more than one 'mag'
so that you can compare one mag to another?

try TWO cartridges loaded... then TWO shy of full
then FULL mags... to observe any spring/stack tension
troubles...

perhaps someone can provide some good photos of
the Mag-lips, with precise measurements for comparison.

also, how free-moving is the extractor/ejector ?
are they clean, worn ?

... just typing outloud... good luck
and, oh yeah... welcome to the forum...
-- toy

dapster · Post by **dapster** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:29 pm

Thank you toyfj40 for typing out loud. I'm embarrassed to admit I never tried using both magazines. I've kept one "in reserve."

I'll number the base plates and see what happens while also observing the number of rounds remaining in the magazine when the problem occurs.

The 41 was purchased new a few months ago. Because it breaks down fairly easily, I keep it pretty clean, especially around the extractor.

Thanks again.

Post by **Bullseye** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:43 am

An old famous 41 pistolsmith (Austin's now deceased) taught me this one for tweaking the extractor and fixing the notorious 41 ejection problem. http://guntalk-online.com/Model41mainte ... #extractor By tightening up the extractor hook, only a few thousandths, prevents the Model 41 cross jam that you've described. Take a look and see if this procedure will help you.

R,
Bullseye

dapster · Post by **dapster** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:23 am

Puzzling me is the fact that the case has clearly been extracted for it to have gotten wedged as previously described. The implication of Bullseye's post is that there are varying degrees of extraction. Bullseye, am I understanding this correctly? And, thank you.

dapster · Post by **dapster** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:02 pm

Bullseye,
I just tested the extractor's holding ability with more slightly more than gentle shaking. The live round remained in place.

KAZ · Post by **KAZ** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:33 pm

Welcome dapster, always good to see another 41 shooter. Everything I'm going to say you have probely already done. That said, I would give it a good clean/lube with Eezox which is a dry film product. Making sure that the chamber is squeaky clean so that a round drops in and out easily, and that the extracter is clean and free. Then load your reserve magazine with your CCI SV which is the best and I'm glad that you already like it. Perhaps try a different lot number. I love CCI SV, but we are eliminating everything that we can to track down what has happened. Regards

Post by **Bullseye** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:58 pm

Is the round staying secure or is it wobbling on the extractor when you ran the test? Your jam is one were the round is not being held tightly against the bolt face and that gives a weak ejection. The new round is being stripped and fed from the magazine prior to the spent case exiting the breech, hence the cross jam. When the spent case is held tightly the full momentum is imparted on the case when it strikes the bolt latch/ejector pin.

Another issue is if the slide is not retracting fully, or losing energy at the end of its stroke. Do you have a bolt buffer installed? If not check for any rubbing inside the slide rail track. Sometimes the slide catch can wander out because the hold down screw has loosened and cause a similar failure.

R,
Bullseye

dapster · Post by **dapster** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:15 pm

The round stayed secure, not wobbling, when I ran the test. There is no buffer installed. Interestingly, there was a buffer on my Les Baer Premier II which I promptly removed.

If as you say, "Sometimes the slide catch can wander out because the hold down screw has loosened and cause a similar failure" were the cause, would you expect frequent failures to eject or simply occasional failures?

Today I had 2 occurrences out of 100, an improvement. I later cleaned the areas of interest including, of course, the extractor. I'll see what happens tomorrow.

Thank you.

Post by **Bullseye** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:28 pm

I would expect the failures to be sporadic at first and then happen more consistently as the manual safety spring plate screw loosened tension. There is a little corner of the safety spring plate that holds the slide release locked in place.

A dirty or leaded chamber can also cause a similar failure. It will expend some of the slide's recoil energy and can cause weak ejection. One old competitor's trick is to place a small (tiny) drop of oil, midway, on the case of the top round of the magazine. The string will fire without hang-ups. However the chamber will get dirtier very quickly from the unburned powder residue sticking to the remnants of the oil in the chamber. This procedure will get you through a match without hang-ups as long as you remember to place a drop on each five round mag just prior to insertion.

For the really temperamental chambers, I've had to re ream the chambers to clean out any deep fouling or battering dimples.

R,
Bullseye

dapster · Post by **dapster** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:41 pm

Thanks again, Bullseye. I'll keep this thread apprised.