Primer Lots

[allendavis]

How important is it to pay attention to primer lot numbers???

Over the last two years, I have seen some significant difference in using CCI primers, but with Winchester primers, they seem to be absolutely uniform from lot-to-lot.

I am a creature of habit, and I love uniformity, and I think I've found it with Winchester's primers. I used to use CCI exclusively, but now use them only for certain magnum handgun loads in specific firearms.

I'd love to hear some feedback.

Allen

[Bullseye]

Lot numers are not as important as brands and types of primers. There are a lot of different manufacturers of primers and each has advantages for different applications. They all use a formula and construction specifications. Bench rest primers have a softer cup and usually detonate easily. This can be a problem with service rifles because the firing pins normally hit the cartridge primer during the auto loading process, a thinner cup can detonate under these conditions, so a thicker cup is recommended for this type of application. The burn rates of primers can affect accuracy. Some magnum primers ignite really fast which can cause improper powder ingnition and lead to poor accuracy. However, with ball powders the magnum primers work fine.

Sticking with a brand and type is far more important than lot. Use the scientific method to see if your primer is affecting accuracy; keep good written records.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye

[allendavis]

Lot numers are not as important as brands and types of primers. There are a lot of different manufacturers of primers and each has advantages for different applications.

As a general, blanket statement, I will agree with you on the face of what you say. However, I've got records where I had to increase/decrease certain loads significantly because the different lots from the same manufacturer altered my loads.

I hate blanket statements. They're almost always wrong and almost never right. Nevertheless, I think that 98% of the time, what you said is correct regarding primer lots. That's where the good old chronograph comes in, as well as detective work when inspecting your fired cases. I really do want to buy one of those new pressure-detecting devices from CED.

They all use a formula and construction specifications. Bench rest primers have a softer cup and usually detonate easily. This can be a problem with service rifles because the firing pins normally hit the cartridge primer during the auto loading process, a thinner cup can detonate under these conditions, so a thicker cup is recommended for this type of application. The burn rates of primers can affect accuracy.

I agree whole-heartedly about the bench-rest primers.

Years ago, I went solely with the CCI primer line because they had (and still do have) the thickest, hardest primer cup on the market. I settled on the CCI because I'd had a few pierced primers in firing my handloads. Mind you, I was still in my "let's-soup-it-up-Magnum-phase" that was really goofy on my part. I never blew up any guns, but I did wear out a perfectly good S&W 686 and a New Model Blackhawk in .41 Magnum. Oh, I forgot others, like a 1956-era Colt .357 Magnum and others I'd like to erase from my memory. (Thank God I let that "magnum phase" pass.)

I now use Winchester primers exclusively, for all my handgun loads, except those for 2400 in true magnum loads, then I still use the CCI magnum pistol primer.

The main reason I like the Winchester primers is because they're the only ones that have tapered cups, and they feed better than anything else in a progressive loading press or in the hand tool I use from RCBS.

Some magnum primers ignite really fast which can cause improper powder ingnition and lead to poor accuracy. However, with ball powders the magnum primers work fine.

I don't think its the speed -- it's the INTENSITY. I accidentally substituted magnum primers in one of my lots of .45 ACP loads using 5.0 gr. of HP-38 (thankfully, only 50 rounds). My chronograph was all over the place. Low velocities were 790 fps all the way up to 990 fps. I found two split necks (out of twice-fired brass) and had two cases that the primers simply fell out of the primer pockets -- YOWZAH!!!)

I think I'll just stay with Winchester primers if I can, but finding them can be problematic at the moment. Winchester just received at $70 million contract from the government to supply the military (the only US manufacturer -- IMI got the other $70 million -- and guess what??? We can't use the IMI ammo in Iraq or Afghanistan because it will offend the Muslims we shoot with JEWISH bullets!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh, please!!! I guess it will keep the towel-heads from getting into Paradise is they're shot with a Jewish-made round!!!)

Anyway, I just bought all the Winchester pistol primers I could find (10,000 small pistol, 5,000 large pistol).

Dude, the .45 ACP is BACK with the US military!!! (My son told me that he didn't see many 9mm handguns in US hands; and many soldiers were carrying either personally-owned .45 1911s or the new Kimbers being supplied to the military!!!)

When I buy a new lot of primers, I set aside up to 50 rounds of ammo to chronograph to see if I find any major variations -- and usually I don't with Winchester.

Sticking with a brand and type is far more important than lot. Use the scientific method to see if your primer is affecting accuracy; keep good written records.

This goes without saying. Primers tend to be far more uniform lot-to-lot than powders do!!!

To back up a moment, I've found it is a mistake to use magnum primers with 2400 powders in the .357 Mag., and even the .41 Mag. with certain charges. On the other hand, I would NEVER load ANYTHING with H-110 unless it has a magnum primer behind the charge.

Then again, I think I'm done with using H-110 altogether, and I have almost 4 pounds of this stuff on my hands and short on storage space. I do wish I'd bought 2400 instead!

I'd like to continue, but am afraid I'm getting too long.

Allen

[toyfj40]

almost always wrong and almost never right.

Hmmm a Venn Diagram would be: pert-near Aleph-Null ??

[Ripsaw]

allendavis:

Outstanding Post!!

Ripsaw

[allendavis]

This was an old post by me and I haven't done anything on this site for some time, so I'm curious: What was it you found "outstanding" about my post???

Just curious.

I've been handloading since I was about 13-14 years old, and I'm damn-near 50 now (you do the math).

I'm proud of my experience, but I never cease to be amazed at how much there is about handloading that I don't know. And I find that I can learn a lot from even newbies.

Allen

[Ripsaw]

While reading your post you cam across as someone who not only keeps good records, but supply a lot of relevent information about your conclusions.

You were a lot like myself in my younger days. I also shot a S&W 686 that got hot rod loads through it as well as a model 29. Like you, the days of heavy recoil, muzzle blast and flash, is a phase is well behind me.

I am also 50 and have been reloading for about 27 years. I used to try different loads by the gun writers with different combinations of powder, bullets, and primers, until I had a basement full of different powders and components. None of these combinations ever panned out to be the "Magic Load" and I settled on just a few powders, and Winchester primers and brass. All the other powder was either shot up and not replaced or given away.

There are different powder, primer and component manufacturers just as there are different brands of audio/visual equipment, automobiles and restaraunts. Take your pick, I choose what works for me.

I also find that primers are pretty consistant from lot to lot and powders aren't. Especially so for 8 lb kegs of surplus pulldown powder. If you ever want to open up a can of worms just start praising the virtues of one powder and primer over another and you'll get more opinions than you'll want to here.

Ripsaw

PS. I loved the part about the IMI ammo being used in Iraq and Afghanistan!!

[allendavis]

Ripsaw

I would like to invite you to e-mail me privately at my own address. I don't often do that, even though my e-mail address isn't exactly classified.

I enjoy exchanges with old-timers who've been around the block a few times.

I can be reached at [email protected]

I'd enjoy swapping "war stories" in private with you. Especially about people who don't believe in "maximum charges" in their handloads. I still have a tiny piece of steel embedded in my right palm from a S&W Model 19 that blew up right next to me at a pistol range back in 1981 (I just managed to throw my hand up in front of my eyes. Must have been instinct, but I knew something really bad was about to happen. The nit-wit shooting the gun (and who loaded the poison ammo) didn't get a scratch. Another fellow at the range lost most of the use of his left eye. I was lucky. The dumbass shooter was substituting Bullseye powder for a max load of Unique. He got away with it for several shots before the cylinder and frame decided to depart the scene in dozens of directions.

Then there's the story about the guy with the 9mm S&W M-39 . . .

Hope you get the idea.

Allen